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Old 03-21-2017, 09:17 PM   #211
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

Throwing a complete wildcard out there. I know geographics make it unlikely but......what about Grand Canyon? If you want to talk about a team with a strong following that appears to be headed in the right direction......there is a team.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:22 PM   #212
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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Throwing a complete wildcard out there. I know geographics make it unlikely but......what about Grand Canyon? If you want to talk about a team with a strong following that appears to be headed in the right direction......there is a team.
They were a for-profit university last year, because they needed to be in order to save the university. I'm pretty sure they don't have the budget to fly from Phoenix to the Midwest every other week. Would be a neat gimmick, but it doesn't make a ton of sense from a money perspective.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:30 PM   #213
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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For discussion sake, lets say we are stuck in the Valley for the time being and WSU is leaving. You're in the league office and you're told to make a realistic recommendation as to what strategy you should pursue to try and build the league as best you can after the Shockers' exit. What do you do?

If it were me, I'd push to add three schools. Two from the Dakotas (probably NDSU and SDSU), and Belmont.

These moves bring a little bit of stability to the league with NDSU and SDSU. These are two teams with strong, loyal fanbases that would be excited to be in the MVC. Strong, loyal fanbases are two things that WSU and Creighton had that the rest of the league lacks. The addition of Loyola, who has one of the smallest loyal bases in the league, left us sorely lacking in this regard. I'm talking butts in seats, the foundation by which all sport contracts are built. More eyes, more ears, more butts, more money. These two schools probably represent the best of our options in that regard.

The addition of Belmont would help in other aspects. Belmont is located in a somewhat major media market, and expands the footprint of the league somewhat. It also brings in another eastern school and private school to balance those interests. They don't have as strong a fanbase, but are a strong program competitively.

Another thing all three of these programs have is the potential to have strong men's basketball programs on a yearly basis. If we really want to try and salvage this as a league with the potential for multiple bids on a year-by-year basis, that is the kind of move that needs to be made.

There is no perfect answer. These schools represent potential additional travel costs to the Illinois schools. It is doubtful the eastern schools want to travel that far, etc, etc. But given everything on balance this seems like the best solution. If our priority as a league is to be as strong and competitive as possible, those are the choices we need to make. If our priority as a league is to cut travel costs....then add SIUE and be done with it. And don?t complain when some members start actively looking for an out.
I like your idea of adding Belmont. Valor is another program worthy of a strong look.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:54 PM   #214
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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They were a for-profit university last year, because they needed to be in order to save the university. I'm pretty sure they don't have the budget to fly from Phoenix to the Midwest every other week. Would be a neat gimmick, but it doesn't make a ton of sense from a money perspective.
Thats actually not true. They've been for profit for awhile now. They're publically traded and making money hand over fist. Plus they already are in a league with Chicago State, Seattle, and UMKC.

You're correct, though, that it doesn't make sense for them. But its not from a lack of funding.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:59 PM   #215
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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They were a for-profit university last year, because they needed to be in order to save the university. I'm pretty sure they don't have the budget to fly from Phoenix to the Midwest every other week. Would be a neat gimmick, but it doesn't make a ton of sense from a money perspective.
They've been for-profit since 2004 and recently tried to transition back to non-profit since they are rolling in the dough and don't need the stigma of being for-profit. The MVC schools are the ones who aren't gonna be wanting to fly to Phoenix, not the other way around.

And the WAC is definitely not the worst league in the nation and could very well be better than the MVC in 2-3 years.

Sorry for the random post but I have a Mark Adams-esque crush on Grand Canyon and the WAC.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:01 PM   #216
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

While we're at it, since Stein wants to add Valor, shouldn't we add Courage and Bravery as well?

Seriously, all this talk about joining the MAC is not realistic, since it would require us moving up to FBS football. We are in no financial position to do so and as the Iowa Legislature continually reduces the money for state universities, our athletic budget gets reduced as well. If you want to help make up the difference, join the PSC and if you are already a member, increase your giving. More money from our alums is imperative to move our programs forward.

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Old 03-21-2017, 10:09 PM   #217
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I like your idea of adding Belmont. Valor is another program worthy of a strong look.
If I'm the MVC grand tsar, than out of those two, I'm going Belmont. Something that Belmont gives us that Valor doesn't is access to Nashville, and by proxy, Tennessee. Valor is nice and all, but Valoraiso adds nothing, market-wise. Valor is basically directly due north of ISUb.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:09 PM   #218
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

I didn't think Belmont showed any interest last time. Has that changed?
I was originally in favor of Valparaiso because they have a decent tradition. But that can change in a heartbeat, just look at SIU and Bradley.

Which schools bring a commitment to basketball, a decent fan base and have a good finances? I would say Loyola had good finances, no tradition, no fan base, and was pretty much blowing smoke about making a commitment to their facilities. Hope we do better this time.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:15 PM   #219
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

Belmont
Valpo
UNO (Which I actually think is a good idea this time showing a little forward thinking)
SDSU
NDSU
UMKC (Wildcard which won't happen but at least they are trying and in the area, hard to get the fan support, Maybe being in a decent conference would help)

If it is UIC I give up
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:24 PM   #220
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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I didn't think Belmont showed any interest last time. Has that changed?
I was originally in favor of Valparaiso because they have a decent tradition. But that can change in a heartbeat, just look at SIU and Bradley.

Which schools bring a commitment to basketball, a decent fan base and have a good finances? I would say Loyola had good finances, no tradition, no fan base, and was pretty much blowing smoke about making a commitment to their facilities. Hope we do better this time.
I think Belmont would be down, simply because the OVC is one of the few conferences that is an even bigger joke than the MVC. There is 0% chance of the OVC getting multiple bids, while the MVC has a... I'll charitably say 5% chance of getting multiple bids in the future. And I certainly think they're committed to hoops, more so than many of the other options.

Not to mention, I think that the MVC would probably be willing to bend over a bit if it meant getting a program that they think will be giving a damn about basketball. Like I said earlier, that depends on the MVC actually giving a damn as well, it's totally possible that they bring in IUIPI because it's easier to bring in a school like that than Belmont or Valpo.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:26 PM   #221
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Belmont
Valpo
UNO (Which I actually think is a good idea this time showing a little forward thinking)
SDSU
NDSU
UMKC (Wildcard which won't happen but at least they are trying and in the area, hard to get the fan support, Maybe being in a decent conference would help)

If it is UIC I give up
All of those options would be perfectly fine. If it's UIC, we need to start pestering the MAC now so that way they take us in when their TV contract runs out in ten years.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:35 PM   #222
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

If it's UIC, I will set fire to the Valley offices.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:43 PM   #223
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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If it's UIC, I will set fire to the Valley offices.
You idiot, now it's premeditated
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:47 PM   #224
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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If it's UIC, I will set fire to the Valley offices.
Is that a play on the Flames mascot?
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:47 PM   #225
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

Sad thing is that if you had to pick one the safe choice would be UIC because well Elgin. Ugh this is gonna be a disaster.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:49 PM   #226
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You idiot, now it's premeditated
Tbf, you could probably make a "justifiable arson" to the judge, like justifiable homicide.

Judge: How can you possibly justify burning down a building owned by a college athletic conference?
BCP: Because they tried to replace Wichita State with Illinois-Chicago, your honor.
Judge: ...Couldn't even spring for Nebraska-Omaha?
BCP: That's what I said!

Also, yeah, UIC is probably the worst choice possible... So that's probably what the MVC is gonna go with.

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Old 03-22-2017, 01:03 AM   #227
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

If the conference seriously considers the Dakotas, would it be more likely that they go for one of the schools (probably NDSU) or would they go for three of them (probably NDSU, SDSU, and USD)? If the latter were to happen, I'd feel bad for UND as they are joining the Summit next season to be with the other Dakota schools.
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:35 AM   #228
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

quick attendance check making me late for work shows
UNI 5378 per game 98th in nation
Valpo 3572
UIC 3166
NDSU 2778
SDSU 2781
Belmont 2,536
USD 1873
UND 1850
UMKC 1528
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:14 AM   #229
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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Tbf, you could probably make a "justifiable arson" to the judge, like justifiable homicide.

Judge: How can you possibly justify burning down a building owned by a college athletic conference?
BCP: Because they tried to replace Wichita State with Illinois-Chicago, your honor.
Judge: ...Couldn't even spring for Nebraska-Omaha?
BCP: That's what I said!

Also, yeah, UIC is probably the worst choice possible... So that's probably what the MVC is gonna go with.
Exactly. The law is on my side here.
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:09 AM   #230
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They've been for-profit since 2004 and recently tried to transition back to non-profit since they are rolling in the dough and don't need the stigma of being for-profit. The MVC schools are the ones who aren't gonna be wanting to fly to Phoenix, not the other way around.

And the WAC is definitely not the worst league in the nation and could very well be better than the MVC in 2-3 years.

Sorry for the random post but I have a Mark Adams-esque crush on Grand Canyon and the WAC.
The WAC is where you go when you don't have any other option. It is the land of misfit toys. GCU will leave the WAC before it becomes more relevant than the MVC.
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:16 AM   #231
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If it is UIC, it pretty much shows that the biggest priority for the league is “convenience/travel for the Illinois schools”. That selection would prove that being nationally competitive is not a priority for the MVC. Milwaukee, in my opinion, would be similar.

I see some people bring up UMKC and UNO. What is attractive to you about these schools? I don’t exactly see them as schools that would raise the profile, but I’d be curious as to what makes them look attractive to others.

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Old 03-22-2017, 11:49 AM   #232
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If it is UIC, it pretty much shows that the biggest priority for the league is ?convenience/travel for the Illinois schools?. That selection would prove that being nationally competitive is not a priority for the MVC. Milwaukee, in my opinion, would be similar.

I see some people bring up UMKC and UNO. What is attractive to you about these schools? I don?t exactly see them as schools that would raise the profile, but I?d be curious as to what makes them look attractive to others.
UMKC I don't understand at all. They don't really have a home arena, they spend next to nothing on their program (other than travel) and have their current coach because he's got Pitino ties and no one else will touch him.

UNO, I can at least sort of understand. Brand new 8000 seat arena, they dropped football and have some money. Trev Alberts (AD) is a moron, but he's at least somewhat forward thinking.

For me it has to be NDSU and SDSU for sure and then find the right third school and go to 12. Ideally that's Belmont, but they seem pretty content in the OVC. Belmont is a wealthy, growing school in a rapidly growing market. They make the most sense.

Do not want Valpo as the Drew brothers are gone and its a tiny school that plays in a tiny dump of an arena that really doesn't have a ton of resources.
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:53 AM   #233
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UMKC is at best, #4 priority in the KC metro area for basketball (after Kansas, Kansas State & Mizzu). However, the university does seem on the upswing generally. The area is definitely within the current geographical footprint and easy to reach. Would there be much coverage, probably not unless WSU stayed put.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:14 PM   #234
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

I'm confused, not unusual, is there a school named Valor or was that just a typo for Valpo?
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:32 PM   #235
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UMKC I don't understand at all. They don't really have a home arena, they spend next to nothing on their program (other than travel) and have their current coach because he's got Pitino ties and no one else will touch him.

UNO, I can at least sort of understand. Brand new 8000 seat arena, they dropped football and have some money. Trev Alberts (AD) is a moron, but he's at least somewhat forward thinking.

For me it has to be NDSU and SDSU for sure and then find the right third school and go to 12. Ideally that's Belmont, but they seem pretty content in the OVC. Belmont is a wealthy, growing school in a rapidly growing market. They make the most sense.

Do not want Valpo as the Drew brothers are gone and its a tiny school that plays in a tiny dump of an arena that really doesn't have a ton of resources.
I agree. If you're looking at Omaha, wouldn't NDSU/SDSU be a similar but better situation? They do have a nice new arena, but that thing was built for hockey not basketball. And they aren't even the biggest program in their town.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:38 PM   #236
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I'm confused, not unusual, is there a school named Valor or was that just a typo for Valpo?
I'm saying Valor as a joke name for Valpo, there could be an actual school name Valor, though.
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:51 PM   #237
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valor_Christian_College

Could be an option of we're looking to expand to the Columbus market. They've pledged to upgrade their facilities......and add an athletics department.....if they get an invite. Looking long term here.
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:47 PM   #238
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valor_Christian_College

Could be an option of we're looking to expand to the Columbus market. They've pledged to upgrade their facilities......and add an athletics department.....if they get an invite. Looking long term here.
Established 1990... no team... It's still a better option than UIC, tbh.
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:15 PM   #239
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

Might as well invite the Xenon International School of Hair Design Fighting Barbers in Topeka @ 1:20

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Old 03-22-2017, 07:18 PM   #240
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http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...139945788.html
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:33 PM   #241
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Established 1990... no team... It's still a better option than UIC, tbh.
Haha well done.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:08 PM   #242
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I'm confused, not unusual, is there a school named Valor or was that just a typo for Valpo?
There's Liberty, why not Valor? Spellcheck has fantastic unintended consequences, Valpo is correct.

Valpo does seem to have decent teams. More than you can say for some of the Illinois teams in our league, and Drake, who should be a hell of a lot better than they are. They were at least in the NCAA tourney conversation for a while this year.

Edit - spell check just tried to correct Valpo to "Valdosta", an actual school. That would've really opened a barrel of monkeys in this thread.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:31 PM   #243
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There's Liberty, why not Valor? Spellcheck has fantastic unintended consequences, Valpo is correct.

Valpo does seem to have decent teams. More than you can say for some of the Illinois teams in our league, and Drake, who should be a hell of a lot better than they are. They were at least in the NCAA tourney conversation for a while this year.

Edit - spell check just tried to correct Valpo to "Valdosta", an actual school. That would've really opened a barrel of monkeys in this thread.
Valdosta... That's Georgia... that's a whole new recruiting ground for us...
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