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Old 04-10-2017, 02:04 PM   #351
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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So is SIU-Edwardsville. Guess they should be added.
What about Western Illinois?
Chicago State?
Eastern Illinois?
UIC?
Southeast Missouri State?

Man, great athletic departments we can pick from simply because "geography"

UMKC is hardly a geographic fit. Look at the footprint, since when is Kansas, now that WSU is gone, truly in our geographic footprint?



Notice what you don't see when cut to show our true geography? Kansas City

UMKC is a trash athletic department. Poorly run. Bad teams.

MBB has more seasons with 20 plus losses than we do without 20 wins over the last decade or so.

Somehow their womens basketball program is worse than their mens

The volleyball team has won more than 179 games only once in the last decade.

Softball team is under .500 every single year

None of the other sports are going to really matter when it comes to how good they are and being a determining factor.

They would have the smallest basketball budget. Smallest athletic budget (and it's only as big as it is now due to traveling in the WAC).

The only "selling feature" for UMKC is that they are in Kansas City - and that's not a freaking selling feature
UMKC is in Missouri and not Kansas. UMKC has the potential of being relevant in men's basketball given proper funding and conference affiliation. UMKC would be a decent drive for UNI and Drake for away games (a bit selfish on this one). And well...Kangaroos...
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:09 PM   #352
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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hear this often.... what the hell is a travel partner?
For sports like volleyball or womens basketball (I believe) it is groups that are paired together. UNI/Drake have always been travel partners. That means when UNI and Drake play volleyball games at home they do it with another set of partners - say Wichita State and Missouri State. One night WSU played at UNI and the next game was at Drake, and visa versa for MSU. When UNI went on the road to MSU, the next game was just a two or three days later and it was at WSU. It means they can fly to one area, bus to the next and then fly back home. It's a cost reduction strategy.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:12 PM   #353
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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UMKC is in Missouri and not Kansas. UMKC has the potential of being relevant in men's basketball given proper funding and conference affiliation. UMKC would be a decent drive for UNI and Drake for away games (a bit selfish on this one). And well...Kangaroos...
Yes, they are Missouri but they are barely Missouri. They are right on the border with Kansas. The western edge of their conference is only a mile from Kansas. Look at the photo of our footprint. KC is no longer our footprint with Creighton and WSU gone. It just is. Adding a craptastic athletic department like UMKC doesn't fix that.

Thining UMKC gets is KC is like thinking freaking Loyola gets us Chicago.

What about UMKC makes you think they'll actually fund anything better than they do now? From what I can tell, their basketball coach would be the lowest paid coach in our conference. He has a win % of 41 in his 4 years on campus. He has won more ever year. UMKC now has to decide, do we pay more or let him go to someone that will. Push comes to shove, chances they pay 400-500+ is about zero.

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Old 04-10-2017, 03:54 PM   #354
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Yes, they are Missouri but they are barely Missouri. They are right on the border with Kansas. The western edge of their conference is only a mile from Kansas. Look at the photo of our footprint. KC is no longer our footprint with Creighton and WSU gone. It just is. Adding a craptastic athletic department like UMKC doesn't fix that.

Thining UMKC gets is KC is like thinking freaking Loyola gets us Chicago.

What about UMKC makes you think they'll actually fund anything better than they do now? From what I can tell, their basketball coach would be the lowest paid coach in our conference. He has a win % of 41 in his 4 years on campus. He has won more ever year. UMKC now has to decide, do we pay more or let him go to someone that will. Push comes to shove, chances they pay 400-500+ is about zero.
Valid concerns with the state of their program, but may I ask about your preoccupation with the current footprint that you are looking at? How is UMKC not a geographic fit? Our western "border" with WSU was past that, and KC is more east than Creighton in Omaha. Why would we have to stay within that narrow map cropping? It would only leave us Chicago State, Western & Eastern Illinois and SE MO as options.

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Old 04-10-2017, 04:17 PM   #355
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

If geography is really the biggest reason why someone gets added, it shows that we no longer care about being the best mid-major league in the midwest, and we no longer care about being competitive. There would be nothing differentiating us from the Horizon and Summit at that point.

Honestly, the more I think about it, I think getting Belmont, Valpo and Murray would be as close to a home run as possible. Even getting two would be huge. The more programs with tradition and success we have, the more opportunities we have for a given program to be relevant in a given year. If we can get 3-5 of Valpo, Belmont, Murray, UNI, Bradley, SIU, ISU, and MSU rolling at the same time.....we may have something cooking again. Remember when the league had four bids it wasn't because all ten teams were solid top to bottom, it was because six of the ten were very solid at the same time.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:20 PM   #356
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Valid concerns with the state of their program, but may I ask about your preoccupation with the current footprint that you are looking at? How is UMKC not a geographic fit? Our western "border" with WSU was past that, and KC is more east than Creighton in Omaha. Why would we have to stay within that narrow map cropping? It would only leave us Chicago State, Western & Eastern Illinois and SE MO as options.
Because, Kansas City is no longer our footprint. Sure, it was with Creighton and WSU in the league. It no longer is. Thus if the reason panther1 thinks UMKC should be added is geography, he's wrong. It's no longer our foot print.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:41 PM   #357
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Because, Kansas City is no longer our footprint. Sure, it was with Creighton and WSU in the league. It no longer is. Thus if the reason panther1 thinks UMKC should be added is geography, he's wrong. It's no longer our foot print.
Exactly right. It's one thing to expand the footprint if the school has a history of success and brings something to the table. It was worth it to go to Wichita for this reason. With WSU out of the conference, I don't think there is school west of Drake that makes a compelling case to be considered that is willing to join the MVC. There is no benefit to adding UMKC. They are horrendous.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:46 PM   #358
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Exactly right. It's one thing to expand the footprint if the school has a history of success and brings something to the table. It was worth it to go to Wichita for this reason. With WSU out of the conference, I don't think there is school west of Drake that makes a compelling case to be considered that is willing to join the MVC. There is no benefit to adding UMKC. They are horrendous.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:30 AM   #359
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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You know damn well that there is no chance we ever play again.
I don't know that.

I do know not all Shocker fans share my desire to continue playing MVC schools. Some think every MVC school is Drake. Some of us know better, and I'd like to think some of these people are in our AD. Someone posted a chart of recent KenPom rankings showing UNI as a pretty consistent high performer. We can't fill our OOC schedule with P5 programs. We have recently scheduled h/h's with quality non-P5 former conference rivals (Tulsa and SLU). I absolutely believe we would continue to do the same going forward.

Thanks for allowing me to hijack the thread. I'm hoping the MVC can find a quality replacement(s) for us--my fingers are crossed for Belmont and/or Murray State. Those are good programs with some cache and recent success.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:15 PM   #360
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

I have a feeling that everyone is saying no (Belmont/Valpo etc).

I selfishly hope if they don't add one of those it's UMKC so I have a UNI game in my backyard..
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:25 PM   #361
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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I have a feeling that everyone is saying no (Belmont/Valpo etc).

I selfishly hope if they don't add one of those it's UMKC so I have a UNI game in my backyard..
Why would they say yes? The Valley is a one-bid league, why move to a competitive one-bid league when you can dominate your own?
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:52 PM   #362
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

If it gets to the point that we are adding UMKC we should probably just stick with nine.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:15 AM   #363
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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If it gets to the point that we are adding UMKC we should probably just stick with nine.
Agreed, I know for a fact that we could schedule two teams with a better RPI than they would have. Shoot, we could probably work it out to have those two games both at home.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:03 AM   #364
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

I wasn't suggesting we really add them. I just want a game in my backyard.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:36 AM   #365
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

I also really don't want a 9 team league. We have a hard time scheduling already, especially getting home games

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Old 04-17-2017, 08:47 AM   #366
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

Honestly, Why would Valpo, Belmont, or Murray be interested in joining the MVC? Is the MVC any better than their current situation when there's no Creighton or Wichita State?

Is it time for major change in the Valley? Is a 5-4 majority for the public schools (UNI, SIU, ISU, ISU, MSU) enough to boot the private schools and add other public football schools? Time for the MVC & MVFC to be one?
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:23 AM   #367
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Agreed, I know for a fact that we could schedule two teams with a better RPI than they would have. Shoot, we could probably work it out to have those two games both at home.
I don't disagree with you, but I think we could have a scheduling issue.

I'm guessing that the reason we left a non-con game on the table last year was because we couldn't find a suitable opponent that had an opening that lined up with an opening on our own schedule. If the MVC goes to 9 teams, then that probably means that conference play is pushed back a week to either the middle of the first week of January or the first Saturday in January. I'm guessing that most other conferences start their play right around when the MVC has in the past (right around December 28th or so). Will we really be able to pick up two non-con opponents to play us during the half-week before new years eve and the half week after new years day? Keep in mind, the foregoing could be an issue that exists for just one year, or if the MVC sticks with 9 for a longer duration of time, it could be an annual issue.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:30 AM   #368
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

There has been some rumblings about the Horizon league being a little unstable, as noted by the coaching carousel and number of player transfers --that could prompt a switch from Valpo (or maybe a dark horse like Wright State). I poked around on a Murray State fan board and saw many of them had the same questions; would the MVC have a higher enough profile to make the slightly higher travel costs and issues with changes to the football program worth it? They also blasted Belmont a little; they respect the program but apparently there is still just a very small fan base in the Nashville community that hasn't grown even with their success.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:01 PM   #369
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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I also really don't want a 9 team league. We have a hard time scheduling already, especially getting home games
I agree that is a problem.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:05 PM   #370
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Honestly, Why would Valpo, Belmont, or Murray be interested in joining the MVC? Is the MVC any better than their current situation when there's no Creighton or Wichita State?

Is it time for major change in the Valley? Is a 5-4 majority for the public schools (UNI, SIU, ISU, ISU, MSU) enough to boot the private schools and add other public football schools? Time for the MVC & MVFC to be one?
If the league could find a way to convince ALL THREE of them to come, we might have something. A 12-team Valley with UNI, Belmont, Murray, Valpo, Illinois State, Bradley, Missouri State and SIU has the potential to be a multi-bid league if 50-60% of those programs are clicking on a given year. Those are all programs that have the potential to be top 100 type programs, and sometimes top 50. That is probably a pipe dream though.

The key, to me, is to find a way that the league is still differentiated from the other mid-major midwest leagues. If we can't do that, it frankly doesn't matter who we add. But, boy, UMKC sure feels like waiving the white flag. They really don't bring anything to the table. If that is really the best we can do then folks are absolutely right that there is now no difference between the MVC and the Horizon, Summit or OVC.

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Old 04-17-2017, 12:19 PM   #371
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Honestly, Why would Valpo, Belmont, or Murray be interested in joining the MVC? Is the MVC any better than their current situation when there's no Creighton or Wichita State?

Is it time for major change in the Valley? Is a 5-4 majority for the public schools (UNI, SIU, ISU, ISU, MSU) enough to boot the private schools and add other public football schools? Time for the MVC & MVFC to be one?
The answer to your first question is definitely no. In fact, by jumping to the Valley, their roads get significantly harder and will be a helluva lot harder to sell to recruits after they come in and don't dominate like they do in the OVC/Horizon/Summit where they are among the higher budgeted teams.

As to your second question, I've been asking that since Creighton left. If you read MVC fans, the privates mainly only care about hoops (as they should since they don't fund football) and look down at the MVFC. If you keep adding mixed interest teams, the conference is going to continue in this loop IMO. I'd prefer a unified conference myself.
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:25 PM   #372
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

A document from Murray Stat suggests they could be voting on the MVC tomorrow. Pure speculation but the agenda for the special meeting includes a topic on intercollegiate athletics
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:59 PM   #373
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A document from Murray Stat suggests they could be voting on the MVC tomorrow. Pure speculation but the agenda for the special meeting includes a topic on intercollegiate athletics
According to Murray State's beat guy, Murray State wants to join. He's got a whole string of tweets (https://twitter.com/dreamarlowe85) talking about it, this is his wrap up tweet:

Meeting adjourned. Murray State is open for an invitation, and the Board of Regents wants to hear about it moving forward.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:26 PM   #374
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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According to Murray State's beat guy, Murray State wants to join. He's got a whole string of tweets (https://twitter.com/dreamarlowe85) talking about it, this is his wrap up tweet:

Meeting adjourned. Murray State is open for an invitation, and the Board of Regents wants to hear about it moving forward.
Guessing the Valley asked Murray State to complete this step prior to getting an official invitation. The Valley doesn't want to get any public "No thank you's" when it starts extending invites. They're getting beat up enough about WSU leaving.

Also don't think Murray's President would publicly go in front of the regents to have this discussion based on the hope that Murray might possibly get an invite. He knows it's coming if he can clear the BOR approval and $1M to buyout the OVC.

Also wondering if they've already done something similar with Valpo but we're likely not going to see/hear about that since they're private.

Guessing we're going to start hearing some news on invites soon.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:33 PM   #375
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

Murray has done what they needed to do. I'm assuming Valpo has done what they needed to do.

I think the only suspense at this point is if there's a 3rd invitation that's flying under the radar somewhere. 11 seems clunky to me, especially on the women's side, but certainly doable.

This has gone SO much better than the last search did.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:55 PM   #376
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

Marlowe also tweeted that the cost of leaving the OVC without a 2 year notice is $1M. Wondering if that would be an issue.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:59 PM   #377
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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This has gone SO much better than the last search did.
Not even close. Adding any combination of Murray and/or Valpo is light years ahead of the LUC add. It also helps by taking one of, if not the best, program from each the OVC and Horizon, helping to add some separation between the Valley and would-be peer conferences.

Honestly, if both Murray and Valpo were open to joining the MVC, I'm not sure why the league wasn't trying to do that before WSU left.
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:12 PM   #378
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Marlowe also tweeted that the cost of leaving the OVC without a 2 year notice is $1M. Wondering if that would be an issue.
Nope.

The university, and BOR, approved a $1.4m "slush fund" for athletics for the event of a sudden unforeseen expense.

Shocking the day they approve the ability to find a new home they approve a slush fund that covers the cost of a the conference exit fee.
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:13 PM   #379
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Marlowe also tweeted that the cost of leaving the OVC without a 2 year notice is $1M. Wondering if that would be an issue.
Their Board of Regents passed what's basically an athletics slush fund today worth about $1.4 Million. I'm sure that it's just a giant coincidence....


EDIT--Damnit Claw....
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:13 PM   #380
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Not even close. Adding any combination of Murray and/or Valpo is light years ahead of the LUC add. It also helps by taking one of, if not the best, program from each the OVC and Horizon, helping to add some separation between the Valley and would-be peer conferences.

Honestly, if both Murray and Valpo were open to joining the MVC, I'm not sure why the league wasn't trying to do that before WSU left.
Would it have mattered? WSU appears to have been opposed to anything east of the Mississippi River. Indiana and Kentucky sure as hell weren't going to get approval.
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:18 PM   #381
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Would it have mattered? WSU appears to have been opposed to anything east of the Mississippi River. Indiana and Kentucky sure as hell weren't going to get approval.
Well that's just categorically false. I don't know if it would have mattered w.r.t WSU leaving the Valley. But irrespective of WSU leaving, wouldn't it have strengthened the Valley? And as such, shouldn't the Valley have been pursuing that course?

Regardless, if one or both of these schools end up as the picks, it's a much better move by the league than the last round. I hope it works out for all parties.
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:27 PM   #382
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Murray has done what they needed to do. I'm assuming Valpo has done what they needed to do.

I think the only suspense at this point is if there's a 3rd invitation that's flying under the radar somewhere. 11 seems clunky to me, especially on the women's side, but certainly doable.

This has gone SO much better than the last search did.
Agreed on all counts.....so far.

Only reason you stay at 11 (if thats the way we go) is that it still allows the full double round robin. There would be advantages to 20 league games namely that there would be two fewer games to try and find to schedule.
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:51 PM   #383
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

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Honestly, Why would Valpo, Belmont, or Murray be interested in joining the MVC? Is the MVC any better than their current situation when there's no Creighton or Wichita State?

Is it time for major change in the Valley? Is a 5-4 majority for the public schools (UNI, SIU, ISU, ISU, MSU) enough to boot the private schools and add other public football schools? Time for the MVC & MVFC to be one?
Remember 2-3 years ago when Murray St was ranked, then they lost their conference tourney and didn't get a bid? Sure the odds of an at large in the Valley aren't what they used to be. But that season proved they had basically no shot of one in the OVC.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:11 PM   #384
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

If this all plays out -- and Illinois State can stay consistent - and Bradley continues making the progress they have shown they are committed to make - the league might be on its way to making a "comeback" of sorts. With multiple strong teams instead of one or two. Am I crazy to say that long-term, we could be even better off?
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:25 PM   #385
DownGoesKansas
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Default Re: Wichita State would leave MVC for AAC if invited

It's looking like the MVC is doing a decent job but if Murray St somehow doesn't get an invite now.... then lol
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