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Wichita State 2016-17

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  • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

    Originally posted by sevelev711 View Post
    MAC would be a huge step down from a basketball point of view, though.
    Not if Wichita leaves. The MVC has been a lessor conference since Creighton left and would drop further without Wichita. Now, I'd still prefer the MVC because of the history we have with the other MVC teams and it's easier to make the NCAA from a 9 or 10 team league than a 14 team league. However, the conferences would be pretty equal in terms of basketball quality at that point.

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    • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

      Originally posted by JD720 View Post
      Not if Wichita leaves. The MVC has been a lessor conference since Creighton left and would drop further without Wichita. Now, I'd still prefer the MVC because of the history we have with the other MVC teams and it's easier to make the NCAA from a 9 or 10 team league than a 14 team league. However, the conferences would be pretty equal in terms of basketball quality at that point.
      IDK, I'd say that if there were something similar to the MVC vs MW challenge, but MVC vs MAC instead, that a Wichita State-less MVC would still come out on top. This years RPI's are matched up pretty decently, and it was a massive down year for the MVC, more so then usual, and while some schools are going to get a smidge worse (Ill St and LU-C losing their important seniors, SIU still sucking it up like they do) others are going to get better (Bradley and all their underclassmen, Drake with a full year with their new HC and returning everyone, us). I'm not saying that a WSU-less Valley next year gets two bids, because it wouldn't, but some schools are definitely on the upswing. Meanwhile, like I said, the MAC hasn't had a two team tourney in almost two decades. And very few of those MAC teams recorded wins.

      The MVC is still reeling from it's best team leaving, and if WSU leaves, it'll hurt from that too. But the MAC has had been wallowing in mediocrity for 20 years. That's not a step up, in any way. Now, if the MVC is in this same situation 10 years from now, that's different, and then us and ISUr can bail at the same time, just in time for that new MAC TV contract, but who the hell knows what the NCAA landscape will look like in 2027. For now, the MVC still seems like the best option.
      Last edited by sevelev711; 03-21-2017, 02:27 PM.

      Comment


      • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

        Originally posted by 06panther10 View Post
        Well I can assure you that your are in the extreme minority with that preference.

        Tues and Wed night football would destroy football at UNI. Even last year with a 5-6 record, we had 10-12K people at every game with a lot of good tailgating. Weeknight game we have eliminated tailgating, and can expect 3-4K people in the stands. Would ruin football at UNI and all but eliminate one of the pillars of fan involvement, fundraising, and general interest of our entire AD.
        I don't disagree with you on this at all. For my personal situation it works better, but I know I'm very much in the minority. And honestly I doubt the athletic department would care much about the extra $100 in ticket revenue that my 1 or 2 Dome visits would generate.

        Tailgating is a great time and all, but would people settle for smaller, shorter weeknight tailgates in exchange for beer sales inside the Dome? I have no preference on this, just throwing it out for conversation.

        Comment


        • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

          For discussion sake, lets say we are stuck in the Valley for the time being and WSU is leaving. You're in the league office and you're told to make a realistic recommendation as to what strategy you should pursue to try and build the league as best you can after the Shockers' exit. What do you do?

          If it were me, I'd push to add three schools. Two from the Dakotas (probably NDSU and SDSU), and Belmont.

          These moves bring a little bit of stability to the league with NDSU and SDSU. These are two teams with strong, loyal fanbases that would be excited to be in the MVC. Strong, loyal fanbases are two things that WSU and Creighton had that the rest of the league lacks. The addition of Loyola, who has one of the smallest loyal bases in the league, left us sorely lacking in this regard. I'm talking butts in seats, the foundation by which all sport contracts are built. More eyes, more ears, more butts, more money. These two schools probably represent the best of our options in that regard.

          The addition of Belmont would help in other aspects. Belmont is located in a somewhat major media market, and expands the footprint of the league somewhat. It also brings in another eastern school and private school to balance those interests. They don't have as strong a fanbase, but are a strong program competitively.

          Another thing all three of these programs have is the potential to have strong men's basketball programs on a yearly basis. If we really want to try and salvage this as a league with the potential for multiple bids on a year-by-year basis, that is the kind of move that needs to be made.

          There is no perfect answer. These schools represent potential additional travel costs to the Illinois schools. It is doubtful the eastern schools want to travel that far, etc, etc. But given everything on balance this seems like the best solution. If our priority as a league is to be as strong and competitive as possible, those are the choices we need to make. If our priority as a league is to cut travel costs....then add SIUE and be done with it. And don?t complain when some members start actively looking for an out.
          Last edited by UNIGrainer; 03-21-2017, 05:18 PM.

          Comment


          • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

            Originally posted by hoopfan View Post
            I don't disagree with you on this at all. For my personal situation it works better, but I know I'm very much in the minority. And honestly I doubt the athletic department would care much about the extra $100 in ticket revenue that my 1 or 2 Dome visits would generate.

            Tailgating is a great time and all, but would people settle for smaller, shorter weeknight tailgates in exchange for beer sales inside the Dome? I have no preference on this, just throwing it out for conversation.
            Why can't there be tailgating AND inside beer sales on Saturdays?
            "Well, that escalated quickly."

            Comment


            • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

              Originally posted by sevelev711 View Post
              IDK, I'd say that if there were something similar to the MVC vs MW challenge, but MVC vs MAC instead, that a Wichita State-less MVC would still come out on top. This years RPI's are matched up pretty decently, and it was a massive down year for the MVC, more so then usual, and while some schools are going to get a smidge worse (Ill St and LU-C losing their important seniors, SIU still sucking it up like they do) others are going to get better (Bradley and all their underclassmen, Drake with a full year with their new HC and returning everyone, us). I'm not saying that a WSU-less Valley next year gets two bids, because it wouldn't, but some schools are definitely on the upswing. Meanwhile, like I said, the MAC hasn't had a two team tourney in almost two decades. And very few of those MAC teams recorded wins.

              The MVC is still reeling from it's best team leaving, and if WSU leaves, it'll hurt from that too. But the MAC has had been wallowing in mediocrity for 20 years. That's not a step up, in any way. Now, if the MVC is in this same situation 10 years from now, that's different, and then us and ISUr can bail at the same time, just in time for that new MAC TV contract, but who the hell knows what the NCAA landscape will look like in 2027. For now, the MVC still seems like the best option.
              I definitely prefer the MVC too. I'm just saying wouldn't be a huge downgrade if football dictated a change. A lot of what you said about the MAC would also be true of the MVC if it wasn't for us, Creighton and Wichita. I know the conference had a nice run in the early/mid 2000s let by SIU, but that seems like a long time ago now.

              Comment


              • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

                Originally posted by UNIGrainer View Post
                For discussion sake, lets say we are stuck in the Valley for the time being and WSU is leaving. You're in the league office and you're told to make a realistic recommendation as to what strategy you should pursue to try and build the league as best you can after the Shockers' exit. What do you do?

                If it were me, I'd push to add three schools. Two from the Dakotas (probably NDSU and SDSU) and Belmont.

                This moves brings a little bit of stability to the league with NDSU and SDSU. These are two teams with strong, loyal fanbases that would be excited to be in the MVC. Strong, loyal fanbases are two things that WSU and Creighton had, that the rest of the league lacks. The addition of Loyola, who has one of the smallest loyal bases in the league, left us sorely lacking in this regard. I?m talking butts in seats?.the foundation by which all sport contracts are built. More eyes, more ears, more butts, more money. These two schools probably represent the best of our options in that regard.

                The addition of Belmont would help in other aspects. Belmont is located in a somewhat major media market, and expands the footprint of the league somewhat. It also brings in another eastern school and private school to balance those interests. They don't have as strong a fanbase, but are a strong program competitively.

                Another thing all three of these programs have is the potential to have strong men?s basketball programs on a yearly basis. If we really want to try and salvage this as a league with the potential for multiple bids on a year-by-year basis, that is the kind of move that needs to be made.

                There is no perfect answer. These schools represent potential additional travel costs to the Illinois schools. It is doubtful the eastern schools want to travel that far, etc, etc. But given everything on balance this seems like the best solution. If our priority as a league is to be as strong and competitive as possible, those are the choices we need to make. If our priority as a league is to cut travel costs?..then add SIUE and be done with it. And don?t complain when some members start actively looking for an out.
                Agree on all fronts. If the MVC tries to get serious about becoming respectable again, by adding some of the teams that you listed (which are the three best candidates), then I see no reason to bail on them. That's if the conference is putting forth the effort and the money. If they just want to be a thing that exists, like the MEAC or the OVC, and bring in a team that has no real reason to be here, then that's fine too, but then and only then should we start looking for other options.

                And no matter what, we should start playing like we are looking for a better options. That is to say, give the MAC (or whoever) a reason to take us. Because we wouldn't get in now. But again, let's at least see the what the Valley does.

                Comment


                • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

                  Weeknight football would suck for my family. Our own kiddo plays flag football right now and that alone required a three-night/week commitment at the 3rd grade level - August through October.
                  "...the Northern Iowa men's basketball team reached the ultimate highs before hitting a devastating low. Unexpected success, followed by unimaginable failure. And they owned it -- all of it -- for the world to see. Like men. Like leaders. Like champions -- in a way no tournament bracket could ever define."

                  Comment


                  • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

                    If WSU leaves MVC and there is no replacement, how long can MVC hang on to an automatic bid?

                    Has an automatic bid ever been rescinded?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

                      Originally posted by Neighbor View Post
                      If WSU leaves MVC and there is no replacement, how long can MVC hang on to an automatic bid?

                      Has an automatic bid ever been rescinded?
                      No chance the autobid goes.
                      To avoid confusion - my username is baseball (Cy Young award) related, NOT for the Cyclones.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

                        Originally posted by Neighbor View Post
                        If WSU leaves MVC and there is no replacement, how long can MVC hang on to an automatic bid?

                        Has an automatic bid ever been rescinded?
                        To answer your questions.....forever and no.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

                          Multiple conferences only have 8 teams. There will be many possible replacements. Whether the MVC(Elgin) gets a decent one in another story

                          Comment


                          • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

                            Originally posted by DownGoesKansas View Post
                            Multiple conferences only have 8 teams. There will be many possible replacements. Whether the MVC(Elgin) gets a decent one in another story
                            We could drop D+ and go to an even 8 team league. That is my preference over adding the available options.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

                              "And immediately, (P'Allen Stinnett's) Facebook status was spouting vulgarities towards the university."

                              Comment


                              • Re: Wichita State 2016-17

                                For the record, as far as I can tell there are three conferences with 8 members.

                                A-Sun
                                Ivy
                                WAC

                                The WAC may legitimately be the worst league in the nation.

                                The Ivy doesn't really count because that number is based on tradition and they exist on a bubble outside of the rest of the world of college athletics.

                                The A-Sun has had three defections in the last three years, and has another member lined up to join in 2018 to get to nine.

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