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Old 03-19-2017, 10:29 PM   #176
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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The picture on this is hilarious. The guy behind her looks so annoyed.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:31 PM   #177
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Taking one for the team to make sure that Indiana doesn't come knocking. Smart.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:53 AM   #178
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

http://shockernet.net/forum/showthre...troversy/page3

Start at page one-- from "none of this happened," to attacking the reporter and calling it a non-issue. Imagine if McDermott when CU was in the valley or Jacobson's wife did something like this and it was getting national headlines-- the pearl clutching would be at obnoxious levels in Wichita.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:23 AM   #179
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

WSU's fan base is so defensive.

It was hard not to notice Lynn at Arch Madness, too. I'm assuming she's that way at every game.

Crazy coaches, crazy spouses. Let's not forget Margaret McCaffery:

http://blog.timesunion.com/collegesp...hofstra/12910/
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:51 AM   #180
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

I have noticed her at Arch Madness, and I even SAW the craziness taking place during portions of the game yesterday just by looking at the bottom right corner of my TV screen. I even sent out a Tweet yesterday that I was noticing it on the TV before anything else broke on Twitter.

This isn't one reporter's annoyance. This is a bad, ugly pattern.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:24 AM   #181
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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http://shockernet.net/forum/showthre...troversy/page3

Start at page one-- from "none of this happened," to attacking the reporter and calling it a non-issue. Imagine if McDermott when CU was in the valley or Jacobson's wife did something like this and it was getting national headlines-- the pearl clutching would be at obnoxious levels in Wichita.
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LOL at "pearl clutching". I've never heard that before. And you're right.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:53 AM   #182
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

I find it interesting that the usual Wichita st guys are not here with their take, which I assume would be to deny, followed by it's not important, followed by attacking the messenger.
I am always amazed at their speedy responses when someone even mentions the Shockers on a post. They must spend some serious time on message boards. I can't imagine this is the only opposing website they are reading.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:26 PM   #183
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

I find it quite entertaining that their posters were concerned about the optics associated with the title of the thread on ShockerNet. What they were saying leads me to believe that they honestly think that ShockerNet is a legitimate source of WSU information and that if they had a thread titled "Lynn Controversy" on ShockerNet that it would be published in the New York Times, ESPN, and on the NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:33 PM   #184
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

BTW, I live and work in CT and my boss is a 40 year-old female that lives in NYC and absolutely hates college basketball. Within 15 minutes of her arrival to work this morning she mentioned an article about Gregg's wife. I think that's evidence enough a good amount of damage has been done no matter whether this is true or not.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:48 PM   #185
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

It's clearly true, but who is damaged? The WSU faithful are like the Clinton or Trump faithful, they'll allow almost anything by their guy/gal and his/her team and pass it off as nothing to see here.

Could it damage Greg's shot at a job like Indiana? Sure it could some, but I imagine spousal behavior at games is pretty far down the list of criteria ADs are using to evaluate prospects. And we will never know if he had a shot at any open jobs anyway, so we'll never know if it hurt. He's set financially and otherwise at WSU to the point I don't think he'd consider any jobs other than the true blue bloods. If WSU is able to move up in conference quality that will be even more true.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:53 PM   #186
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I find it quite entertaining that their posters were concerned about the optics associated with the title of the thread on ShockerNet. What they were saying leads me to believe that they honestly think that ShockerNet is a legitimate source of WSU information and that if they had a thread titled "Lynn Controversy" on ShockerNet that it would be published in the New York Times, ESPN, and on the NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt.
Lol, I saw that. Like, if you're trying to look professional or whatever, the title of the thread is not the place to start. Start with, oh, I don't know, acknowledging the problem instead of trying to place blame on the reporter. That's probably better for your optics.

It'll be real funny to me if the AAC ends up not taking them because of this. There's no way that the coaches wife being a drunken **** would be a deal breaker, but I can dream, can't I?
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:08 PM   #187
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

jees, there's more conspiracy theorists with this than the Kennedy assassination.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:55 PM   #188
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

Any press is good press, right? This article from a British tabloid, with just the right amount of hyperbole

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...CTED-game.html
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:55 PM   #189
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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Any press is good press, right? This article from a British tabloid, with just the right amount of hyperbole

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...CTED-game.html
They obviously cover European soccer, so they have experience with such matters.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:44 PM   #190
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

So over at the Redbird forum, they're wondering how they should get out of the MVC, now that WSU is leaving. Maybe they should worry about, I don't know, say, making the tournament for the first time in 20 years before worrying about how to move up a conference.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:07 PM   #191
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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So over at the Redbird forum, they're wondering how they should get out of the MVC, now that WSU is leaving. Maybe they should worry about, I don't know, say, making the tournament for the first time in 20 years before worrying about how to move up a conference.
They're right. We need to be on the same train.

#MACtion
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:26 PM   #192
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They're right. We need to be on the same train.

#MACtion
Agree. Weeknight football wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, IMO. I haven't been to a game in the Dome in 5+ years despite living in 15 minutes away. For a casual football fan, I have a hard time giving up a Saturday during the fall when there are only limited days of warm weather left. I rarely even consider getting a ticket and going to the game. If the game was on a weeknight, I would probably attend a couple per year just due to it being more convenient. Others will disagree and I'm sure I'm in the minority with that statement, but I can understand the issues for fans traveling from out of town or fans with kids in school that weeknights aren't a great option.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:17 PM   #193
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Agree. Weeknight football wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, IMO. I haven't been to a game in the Dome in 5+ years despite living in 15 minutes away. For a casual football fan, I have a hard time giving up a Saturday during the fall when there are only limited days of warm weather left. I rarely even consider getting a ticket and going to the game. If the game was on a weeknight, I would probably attend a couple per year just due to it being more convenient. Others will disagree and I'm sure I'm in the minority with that statement, but I can understand the issues for fans traveling from out of town or fans with kids in school that weeknights aren't a great option.
Well I can assure you that your are in the extreme minority with that preference.

Tues and Wed night football would destroy football at UNI. Even last year with a 5-6 record, we had 10-12K people at every game with a lot of good tailgating. Weeknight game we have eliminated tailgating, and can expect 3-4K people in the stands. Would ruin football at UNI and all but eliminate one of the pillars of fan involvement, fundraising, and general interest of our entire AD.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:21 PM   #194
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They're right. We need to be on the same train.

#MACtion
MAC would be a huge step down from a basketball point of view, though. They haven't had multiple bids since 1999. That's a looooong time. It's not that the MVC specifically is getting screwed by the committee, it's that mid-majors as whole have been getting shafted, and it's going to keep trending that way. That's way I don't see the long term planning in Wichita going to AAC. The AAC is not a conference that's built to last. Hell, how many teams threw there hat into the Big XII expansion ring? I know Houston and Cinci did for sure, meanwhile UConn is trying to make a push for the Big East, dropping their football to FCS a la Villanova.

Secondly, I'm making fun of them for saying that thinking that they deserve better than the MVC, despite not making the tournament in 20 years, and never making it to the second weekend, and I'll say the same thing about anyone thinking that we deserve better, either. The best our football team has done is losing the championship game ten years ago, and the basketball team has only made it to the second weekend of the tournament once, and has only made the tournament a grand total of eight times. And we're two years out from making it again (unless WSU leaves before next season, which I don't think will happen). What the hell have we done to get to move up a rung?

And thirdly where can we move up to? Here's a list of conferences that are considered an improvement to the MVC from a hoops perspective: A-10, AAC, ACC, B1G, Big East, Big XII, Pac-12, SEC. Let's immidiately cross out six, as we aren't ever going to be P5, and since we're a public school, we aren't going to go Big East. That leaves the A-10 and AAC. Those two are it. Which both are going to be at an even number of teams once WSU goes to AAC. They would both require an insane amount of travel, AAC would be hopping up to FBS, and A-10 would require ditching football (or keeping it, but finding somewhere else to go with it). We don't have the budget to recruit in any state that isn't touching Iowa, you think we have the budget for all of our teams needing to travel to Richmond or Orlando?

Wichita has both the resume and the budget to get to go to a better conference, we have neither. We're not going to get an invite to a better conference anytime soon, nor should we. The only way we get into a better conference is if we tear it up in basketball, like WSU, or in football, like NDSU, and even then, it's no guarantee. We're not the only school wanting to move. The MVC is the best realistic situation for us right now. So let's win this conference and hope the mainstays of the past (SIU, Brad, MSU, ISUBlue) get their **** together at some point.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:25 PM   #195
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Well I can assure you that your are in the extreme minority with that preference.

Tues and Wed night football would destroy football at UNI. Even last year with a 5-6 record, we had 10-12K people at every game with a lot of good tailgating. Weeknight game we have eliminated tailgating, and can expect 3-4K people in the stands. Would ruin football at UNI and all but eliminate one of the pillars of fan involvement, fundraising, and general interest of our entire AD.
I agree.

However, the Tuesdays/Wednesdays are only in Late October and November when tailgating dies down anyway. We'd still play on Saturday when the weather is nice. The other factor is with the TV money that we'd get, the numbers in the stands would matter far less, even though you're absolutely right that it would kill atmosphere...
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:43 PM   #196
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MAC would be a huge step down from a basketball point of view, though.
Not if Wichita leaves. The MVC has been a lessor conference since Creighton left and would drop further without Wichita. Now, I'd still prefer the MVC because of the history we have with the other MVC teams and it's easier to make the NCAA from a 9 or 10 team league than a 14 team league. However, the conferences would be pretty equal in terms of basketball quality at that point.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:22 PM   #197
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Not if Wichita leaves. The MVC has been a lessor conference since Creighton left and would drop further without Wichita. Now, I'd still prefer the MVC because of the history we have with the other MVC teams and it's easier to make the NCAA from a 9 or 10 team league than a 14 team league. However, the conferences would be pretty equal in terms of basketball quality at that point.
IDK, I'd say that if there were something similar to the MVC vs MW challenge, but MVC vs MAC instead, that a Wichita State-less MVC would still come out on top. This years RPI's are matched up pretty decently, and it was a massive down year for the MVC, more so then usual, and while some schools are going to get a smidge worse (Ill St and LU-C losing their important seniors, SIU still sucking it up like they do) others are going to get better (Bradley and all their underclassmen, Drake with a full year with their new HC and returning everyone, us). I'm not saying that a WSU-less Valley next year gets two bids, because it wouldn't, but some schools are definitely on the upswing. Meanwhile, like I said, the MAC hasn't had a two team tourney in almost two decades. And very few of those MAC teams recorded wins.

The MVC is still reeling from it's best team leaving, and if WSU leaves, it'll hurt from that too. But the MAC has had been wallowing in mediocrity for 20 years. That's not a step up, in any way. Now, if the MVC is in this same situation 10 years from now, that's different, and then us and ISUr can bail at the same time, just in time for that new MAC TV contract, but who the hell knows what the NCAA landscape will look like in 2027. For now, the MVC still seems like the best option.

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Old 03-21-2017, 03:47 PM   #198
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Well I can assure you that your are in the extreme minority with that preference.

Tues and Wed night football would destroy football at UNI. Even last year with a 5-6 record, we had 10-12K people at every game with a lot of good tailgating. Weeknight game we have eliminated tailgating, and can expect 3-4K people in the stands. Would ruin football at UNI and all but eliminate one of the pillars of fan involvement, fundraising, and general interest of our entire AD.
I don't disagree with you on this at all. For my personal situation it works better, but I know I'm very much in the minority. And honestly I doubt the athletic department would care much about the extra $100 in ticket revenue that my 1 or 2 Dome visits would generate.

Tailgating is a great time and all, but would people settle for smaller, shorter weeknight tailgates in exchange for beer sales inside the Dome? I have no preference on this, just throwing it out for conversation.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:04 PM   #199
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For discussion sake, lets say we are stuck in the Valley for the time being and WSU is leaving. You're in the league office and you're told to make a realistic recommendation as to what strategy you should pursue to try and build the league as best you can after the Shockers' exit. What do you do?

If it were me, I'd push to add three schools. Two from the Dakotas (probably NDSU and SDSU), and Belmont.

These moves bring a little bit of stability to the league with NDSU and SDSU. These are two teams with strong, loyal fanbases that would be excited to be in the MVC. Strong, loyal fanbases are two things that WSU and Creighton had that the rest of the league lacks. The addition of Loyola, who has one of the smallest loyal bases in the league, left us sorely lacking in this regard. I'm talking butts in seats, the foundation by which all sport contracts are built. More eyes, more ears, more butts, more money. These two schools probably represent the best of our options in that regard.

The addition of Belmont would help in other aspects. Belmont is located in a somewhat major media market, and expands the footprint of the league somewhat. It also brings in another eastern school and private school to balance those interests. They don't have as strong a fanbase, but are a strong program competitively.

Another thing all three of these programs have is the potential to have strong men's basketball programs on a yearly basis. If we really want to try and salvage this as a league with the potential for multiple bids on a year-by-year basis, that is the kind of move that needs to be made.

There is no perfect answer. These schools represent potential additional travel costs to the Illinois schools. It is doubtful the eastern schools want to travel that far, etc, etc. But given everything on balance this seems like the best solution. If our priority as a league is to be as strong and competitive as possible, those are the choices we need to make. If our priority as a league is to cut travel costs....then add SIUE and be done with it. And don?t complain when some members start actively looking for an out.

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Old 03-21-2017, 04:06 PM   #200
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I don't disagree with you on this at all. For my personal situation it works better, but I know I'm very much in the minority. And honestly I doubt the athletic department would care much about the extra $100 in ticket revenue that my 1 or 2 Dome visits would generate.

Tailgating is a great time and all, but would people settle for smaller, shorter weeknight tailgates in exchange for beer sales inside the Dome? I have no preference on this, just throwing it out for conversation.
Why can't there be tailgating AND inside beer sales on Saturdays?
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:08 PM   #201
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IDK, I'd say that if there were something similar to the MVC vs MW challenge, but MVC vs MAC instead, that a Wichita State-less MVC would still come out on top. This years RPI's are matched up pretty decently, and it was a massive down year for the MVC, more so then usual, and while some schools are going to get a smidge worse (Ill St and LU-C losing their important seniors, SIU still sucking it up like they do) others are going to get better (Bradley and all their underclassmen, Drake with a full year with their new HC and returning everyone, us). I'm not saying that a WSU-less Valley next year gets two bids, because it wouldn't, but some schools are definitely on the upswing. Meanwhile, like I said, the MAC hasn't had a two team tourney in almost two decades. And very few of those MAC teams recorded wins.

The MVC is still reeling from it's best team leaving, and if WSU leaves, it'll hurt from that too. But the MAC has had been wallowing in mediocrity for 20 years. That's not a step up, in any way. Now, if the MVC is in this same situation 10 years from now, that's different, and then us and ISUr can bail at the same time, just in time for that new MAC TV contract, but who the hell knows what the NCAA landscape will look like in 2027. For now, the MVC still seems like the best option.
I definitely prefer the MVC too. I'm just saying wouldn't be a huge downgrade if football dictated a change. A lot of what you said about the MAC would also be true of the MVC if it wasn't for us, Creighton and Wichita. I know the conference had a nice run in the early/mid 2000s let by SIU, but that seems like a long time ago now.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:31 PM   #202
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For discussion sake, lets say we are stuck in the Valley for the time being and WSU is leaving. You're in the league office and you're told to make a realistic recommendation as to what strategy you should pursue to try and build the league as best you can after the Shockers' exit. What do you do?

If it were me, I'd push to add three schools. Two from the Dakotas (probably NDSU and SDSU) and Belmont.

This moves brings a little bit of stability to the league with NDSU and SDSU. These are two teams with strong, loyal fanbases that would be excited to be in the MVC. Strong, loyal fanbases are two things that WSU and Creighton had, that the rest of the league lacks. The addition of Loyola, who has one of the smallest loyal bases in the league, left us sorely lacking in this regard. I?m talking butts in seats?.the foundation by which all sport contracts are built. More eyes, more ears, more butts, more money. These two schools probably represent the best of our options in that regard.

The addition of Belmont would help in other aspects. Belmont is located in a somewhat major media market, and expands the footprint of the league somewhat. It also brings in another eastern school and private school to balance those interests. They don't have as strong a fanbase, but are a strong program competitively.

Another thing all three of these programs have is the potential to have strong men?s basketball programs on a yearly basis. If we really want to try and salvage this as a league with the potential for multiple bids on a year-by-year basis, that is the kind of move that needs to be made.

There is no perfect answer. These schools represent potential additional travel costs to the Illinois schools. It is doubtful the eastern schools want to travel that far, etc, etc. But given everything on balance this seems like the best solution. If our priority as a league is to be as strong and competitive as possible, those are the choices we need to make. If our priority as a league is to cut travel costs?..then add SIUE and be done with it. And don?t complain when some members start actively looking for an out.
Agree on all fronts. If the MVC tries to get serious about becoming respectable again, by adding some of the teams that you listed (which are the three best candidates), then I see no reason to bail on them. That's if the conference is putting forth the effort and the money. If they just want to be a thing that exists, like the MEAC or the OVC, and bring in a team that has no real reason to be here, then that's fine too, but then and only then should we start looking for other options.

And no matter what, we should start playing like we are looking for a better options. That is to say, give the MAC (or whoever) a reason to take us. Because we wouldn't get in now. But again, let's at least see the what the Valley does.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:43 PM   #203
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

Weeknight football would suck for my family. Our own kiddo plays flag football right now and that alone required a three-night/week commitment at the 3rd grade level - August through October.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:30 PM   #204
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

If WSU leaves MVC and there is no replacement, how long can MVC hang on to an automatic bid?

Has an automatic bid ever been rescinded?
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:37 PM   #205
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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If WSU leaves MVC and there is no replacement, how long can MVC hang on to an automatic bid?

Has an automatic bid ever been rescinded?
No chance the autobid goes.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:45 PM   #206
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

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If WSU leaves MVC and there is no replacement, how long can MVC hang on to an automatic bid?

Has an automatic bid ever been rescinded?
To answer your questions.....forever and no.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:48 PM   #207
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

Multiple conferences only have 8 teams. There will be many possible replacements. Whether the MVC(Elgin) gets a decent one in another story
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:51 PM   #208
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Multiple conferences only have 8 teams. There will be many possible replacements. Whether the MVC(Elgin) gets a decent one in another story
We could drop D+ and go to an even 8 team league. That is my preference over adding the available options.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:59 PM   #209
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/col...link=twt_staff
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:16 PM   #210
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Default Re: Wichita State 2016-17

For the record, as far as I can tell there are three conferences with 8 members.

A-Sun
Ivy
WAC

The WAC may legitimately be the worst league in the nation.

The Ivy doesn't really count because that number is based on tradition and they exist on a bubble outside of the rest of the world of college athletics.

The A-Sun has had three defections in the last three years, and has another member lined up to join in 2018 to get to nine.
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