All FCS football this weekend

[UNIdad]

Just noticed an interesting fact. All FCS football this weekend is being played in Montana, South Dakota, and North Dakota.

[06panther10]

So, just like normal then.

[UNIdad]

So, just like normal then.

Is it normal? It seems like these states have been strong for a while, but I don't recall them hosting all four games.

[BCPanther]

USD slid into Montana's slot but, yeah, this is pretty normal. Didn't have an east coast program that ran up a big record not playing anybody this year.

[nadf.]

Pretty much everyone who once cared about FCS football has moved on, all thats left are the schools in Dakota and Montana.

[UNIdad]

All home teams win. All remaining teams are from Montana, South Dakota, and North Dakota. Glad the bracket-makers allowed this to happen.

[Blue42]

The states of Montana, South Dakota and North Dakota rank as the 44th, 47th and 48th states in the US by population.

Combined less than 3 million.

Obviously having no FBS teams in the state is very positive for FCS teams.

But still pretty odd what the Dakota's have been able to do.

[PurpleCatFan]

Where do I they rank football budget wise in the MVC?

[Blue42]

Where do I they rank football budget wise in the MVC?

At the top...of course.

That's the point. They managed to build the machine in low population states by getting the "local" fans...who don't have a bigger name brand in the state...behind them.

It's one thing to have the opportunity. It's another thing to do it successfully. They have.

[asihe_1991]

Where does the money actually come from for the Dakota schools? I always hear it's fracking/oil/gas, but what does that actually mean? Are the owners of these fracking/drilling companies making ****loads of money and giving it to the university athletic programs? Are the universities invested in the industry somehow? How does the money actually get to the schools? I don't doubt it does - just want to know how exactly. Probably a stupid question

[clenz]

But still pretty odd what the Dakota's have been able to do.

Is it? There are a number of factors that are impossible to ignore

There are no FBS schools in their states. They have no big schools in their state, in their system etc. able to manipulate the regents or legislature into cutting funding to them because they view their growth as harmful to their departments. They don't have their state legislature full of alumni of the larger schools that only care about them and would prefer places like UNI no longer existed because they view reviewing their budgets, or anything related to them, as a waste of time or resources. Rather, they are treated the same way Iowa and Iowa State are in our state. Their legislatures are full of their graduates. Their voters grew up going to their events, thus wanting them to succeed. They aren't a complete after thought within their own state. We are cut off at the knees by out state/system where those four control the tool that does the cutting.

To show you just how remote these schools are, in relation to the rest of the FBS world, the UNI-Dome is 221 miles from Huntington Bank Stadium. FargoDome is 245. DakotaDome is 300 miles.Alreus Center is 317 miles. Yes, Dana J. Dykhouse is 208 miles but a longer drive by car. We are 311 miles from Memorial Stadium. DakotaDome 190. DJD 290. FargoDome 480. Alerus 550. USD and SDSU do have to go through more of a battle with Nebraska than any of the 5 of us and Minnesota. There is frustration with fans watching Nebraska over them, though it's not significant numbers. It also doesn't impact those people donating to USD or SDSU at a close rate as UI/ISU and UNI. Just for reference UNI the same distance to Camp Randall as USD to Nebraska. We are closer to Notre Dame than NDSU and UND are Nebraska. We are closer to Mizzou than any of those 4 to Minnesota. Hell, we are closer to Kansas State that both ND schools and SDSU and the difference between USD and UNI in distance is less than the distance between the UNIDome and Walston-Hoover in Waverly.

Yes, people in NW Iowa, and even into Sioux Falls, are by and large UI, ISU, or NU fans first. I grew up in NW Iowa. The vast majority of people I went to HS with went to SDSU or USD. Those two schools are the default "my second team" schools behind UI/ISU/Neb. Everyone has either gone to school or has direct family that has gone to school there. Not only that, the state of SD has wanted people to move there so badly for so long they have reciprocity with Iowa. Meaning people in NW Iowa can go to school closer to home for 9k at USD/SDSU or more than 2x as far away and pay closer to 10,000. Additionally because they are so close to those two schools they are much more willing to go to games at those schools, and donate back to those schools, than they are to go to Iowa games because it is a 5.5 hr drive to IC and 4 to ISU. The majority of people who leave their home towns in NW Iowa end up in Sioux Falls, SD, an hour from both USD and SDSU. The majority of our students come from central and eastern Iowa. Kids that grew up "wanting to be a Hawk or Cyclone". They, largely, move to Cedar Rapids and Des Moines. Beyond ticket sales, donors of all sizes are far more likely to give money to those schools. Businesses more likely to partner with those schools. Remember a year ago when there was outrage over the Kwik Star on the Hill having UI/ISU logos on their pumps? Guess which schools don't have to deal with that? Those companies, those donors, those partners go to them.

Continuing into another area of budgets. Yes, they are at the bottom when it comes to population. They don't have to fight with anyone, outside of rare cases, for the best talent in their area. On top of that, as I mentioned, reciprocity was set up to recruit students to their universities. UNI has never had that, though we will in the coming year. A byproduct of that is athletic budgets. Those 4 can bring in 80% of their roster at in-state tuition costs, while less than half their roster is in-state kids. The SD schools can bring in Iowa kids at lower cost to the budget than UNI. That allows significant reallocation of resources. All 4 schools can bring Minnesota kids in at a cheaper rate than UNI can Iowa kids. It's no wonder we lost the Twin Cities to them over the last decade. They can give a kid a half ride and have their cost be manageable without needing any loans while UNI has to offer a kid 80% to get to the same cost. Our ability to split 63 scholarships around 85 players gets significantly harder than those 4. From the very start we have one arm tied behind out back.

Combining the last two budget points and putting them towards facilities. Yes, I **** all over David with "WHERE'S THE MONEY?!?" and "CAN'T HAPPEN HERE BUT IT CAN IN VERMILLION!!" but it is entirely possible, if not likely, getting those partnerships is harder. Those businesses don't have a bigger school get to ROI from with their donations or naming rights. They don't have people running those companies that love Iowa and Iowa State first and go "We are in Iowa. We are an Iowa business. We are spending our resources at those schools because it gives us a better ROI. So yes, Vermillion and Brookings are Waverly for size and seeing them fund their facilities and upgrades the way they have the last decade is disheartening. 100%. However, refer to previous statements regarding where they are in relation to any other schools. Where they are in relation to businesses sending their sponsorship money to be seen by the most people to get returns to their business. Where the wealthiest people have a strong enough connection to those schools as opposed to larger power schools. I can appreciate all of those challenges David was facing while also realizing he was doing an insanely **** job when it came to getting people to buy in to UNI.

Beyond that we can look at the North Dakota schools. Both of them play in buildings not built owned, or maintained by them. That can have it's disadvantages, but when it comes to allowing budgets to be reallocated elsewhere for other facilities, extras for athletes, staff pay, etc. it is significant. You want to know how much NDSU pays per year to rent the FargoDome? To host all of their football games? They pay $1 per year. No, I'm not missing a comma, zeros, anything else. They pay a single dollar per year for use of the facility. Beyond that the school does not pay for security at events. They do not pay for concessions workers. They don't pay for any required maintenance on the building. They don't pay the utility costs. They pay nothing of those costs. Yes, that also means they don't get to use that building to generate revenue for all of the concerts and other events held in there, but they don't have the headache of scheduling those, staffing those, paying expenses, etc. They also, in their agreement with the city of Fargo to get it built, got them to the build it on the NW side of campus, so they still have an on campus facilities. They negotiated where they still get a split of concession sales. They still get gate revenue. The biggest downside for NDSU is they can't renovate the stadium to get more seats, upgrade things they may want upgraded, etc. without the city approving it and then the population voting on it. They are stuck in that building as the cost to build a larger dome to be more "FBS quality" is prohibitive to their budgets because all of a sudden funds can't be given to other programs like they are. The voters in Fargo aren't going to vote for any tax/funds to go to build a brand new building for NDSU to play in. As big as their donors are they aren't big enough to get a modern 25-40k domed stadium, and I have significant doubts they are willing to actually play home games outside again even with an FBS move meaning no more playoff games at home in December.

UND rents Alerus for games. I don't know the exact total but it's a drop in the bucket compared to having to build and maintain their own indoor facility. Beyond just that they have every athletic building paid for, built, and maintained by the Ralph and Betty Englelstad Trust. They have a hockey arena that is better than any other D1 school, regardless of their school and budget size. It is NHL caliber but college sized at just over 11000. The build cost was 15 million and the Engelstad's donated about 12 million up front. Once it was completed they donated another 13 million. Their basketball arena (The Betty Engelstad Sioux Center), while not amazing, was built entirely by the trust and upfront funded by over 7 million donated. That entire area has been developed into a place that is called "University Village". In that same area the university build their WRC and it has commercial space that has been added as part of the development including two strip malls, two banks, restaurants, a gast station, and student housing. Recently additional townhomes were built in that area and the school of medicine and health sciences built in that area.This has allowed UND to dump tens of millions of dollars into other athletic projects - specifically the Frtiz Pollard Athletic Center. Now, the downside to all of this is they are completely beholden to the Engelstad trust. They have to deal with the fact that the name on all of their buildings, athletic and academic, is a well know Nazi and racist. They aren't allowed to remove a single Fighting Sioux logo from any facility or they are cut off from all funds and lose access to those buildings. It's a fine line they have to walk, but they do it because what it allows them to do.

This got far longer than I meant for it to be, but it's really not odd what they've been able to do. If anything it shows just how impressive what App State, Georgia Southern, Marshall, even UNI in the 00s were able to do. The Dakota 4, and Montana schools, are now the biggest fish in a tiny ass pond beating up on fish that have been starved by their owners.

[asihe_1991]

Lol clenz was typing out the answer to my question before i even asked it

[Blue42]

Is it? There are a number of factors that are impossible to ignore

There are no FBS schools in their states. They have no big schools in their state, in their system etc. able to manipulate the regents or legislature into cutting funding to them because they view their growth as harmful to their departments. They don't have their state legislature full of alumni of the larger schools that only care about them and would prefer places like UNI no longer existed because they view reviewing their budgets, or anything related to them, as a waste of time or resources. Rather, they are treated the same way Iowa and Iowa State are in our state. Their legislatures are full of their graduates. Their voters grew up going to their events, thus wanting them to succeed. They aren't a complete after thought within their own state. We are cut off at the knees by out state/system where those four control the tool that does the cutting.

To show you just how remote these schools are, in relation to the rest of the FBS world, the UNI-Dome is 221 miles from Huntington Bank Stadium. FargoDome is 245. DakotaDome is 300 miles.Alreus Center is 317 miles. Yes, Dana J. Dykhouse is 208 miles but a longer drive by car. We are 311 miles from Memorial Stadium. DakotaDome 190. DJD 290. FargoDome 480. Alerus 550. USD and SDSU do have to go through more of a battle with Nebraska than any of the 5 of us and Minnesota. There is frustration with fans watching Nebraska over them, though it's not significant numbers. It also doesn't impact those people donating to USD or SDSU at a close rate as UI/ISU and UNI. Just for reference UNI the same distance to Camp Randall as USD to Nebraska. We are closer to Notre Dame than NDSU and UND are Nebraska. We are closer to Mizzou than any of those 4 to Minnesota. Hell, we are closer to Kansas State that both ND schools and SDSU and the difference between USD and UNI in distance is less than the distance between the UNIDome and Walston-Hoover in Waverly.

Yes, people in NW Iowa, and even into Sioux Falls, are by and large UI, ISU, or NU fans first. I grew up in NW Iowa. The vast majority of people I went to HS with went to SDSU or USD. Those two schools are the default "my second team" schools behind UI/ISU/Neb. Everyone has either gone to school or has direct family that has gone to school there. Not only that, the state of SD has wanted people to move there so badly for so long they have reciprocity with Iowa. Meaning people in NW Iowa can go to school closer to home for 9k at USD/SDSU or more than 2x as far away and pay closer to 10,000. Additionally because they are so close to those two schools they are much more willing to go to games at those schools, and donate back to those schools, than they are to go to Iowa games because it is a 5.5 hr drive to IC and 4 to ISU. The majority of people who leave their home towns in NW Iowa end up in Sioux Falls, SD, an hour from both USD and SDSU. The majority of our students come from central and eastern Iowa. Kids that grew up "wanting to be a Hawk or Cyclone". They, largely, move to Cedar Rapids and Des Moines. Beyond ticket sales, donors of all sizes are far more likely to give money to those schools. Businesses more likely to partner with those schools. Remember a year ago when there was outrage over the Kwik Star on the Hill having UI/ISU logos on their pumps? Guess which schools don't have to deal with that? Those companies, those donors, those partners go to them.

Continuing into another area of budgets. Yes, they are at the bottom when it comes to population. They don't have to fight with anyone, outside of rare cases, for the best talent in their area. On top of that, as I mentioned, reciprocity was set up to recruit students to their universities. UNI has never had that, though we will in the coming year. A byproduct of that is athletic budgets. Those 4 can bring in 80% of their roster at in-state tuition costs, while less than half their roster is in-state kids. The SD schools can bring in Iowa kids at lower cost to the budget than UNI. That allows significant reallocation of resources. All 4 schools can bring Minnesota kids in at a cheaper rate than UNI can Iowa kids. It's no wonder we lost the Twin Cities to them over the last decade. They can give a kid a half ride and have their cost be manageable without needing any loans while UNI has to offer a kid 80% to get to the same cost. Our ability to split 63 scholarships around 85 players gets significantly harder than those 4. From the very start we have one arm tied behind out back.

Combining the last two budget points and putting them towards facilities. Yes, I **** all over David with "WHERE'S THE MONEY?!?" and "CAN'T HAPPEN HERE BUT IT CAN IN VERMILLION!!" but it is entirely possible, if not likely, getting those partnerships is harder. Those businesses don't have a bigger school get to ROI from with their donations or naming rights. They don't have people running those companies that love Iowa and Iowa State first and go "We are in Iowa. We are an Iowa business. We are spending our resources at those schools because it gives us a better ROI. So yes, Vermillion and Brookings are Waverly for size and seeing them fund their facilities and upgrades the way they have the last decade is disheartening. 100%. However, refer to previous statements regarding where they are in relation to any other schools. Where they are in relation to businesses sending their sponsorship money to be seen by the most people to get returns to their business. Where the wealthiest people have a strong enough connection to those schools as opposed to larger power schools. I can appreciate all of those challenges David was facing while also realizing he was doing an insanely **** job when it came to getting people to buy in to UNI.

Beyond that we can look at the North Dakota schools. Both of them play in buildings not built owned, or maintained by them. That can have it's disadvantages, but when it comes to allowing budgets to be reallocated elsewhere for other facilities, extras for athletes, staff pay, etc. it is significant. You want to know how much NDSU pays per year to rent the FargoDome? To host all of their football games? They pay $1 per year. No, I'm not missing a comma, zeros, anything else. They pay a single dollar per year for use of the facility. Beyond that the school does not pay for security at events. They do not pay for concessions workers. They don't pay for any required maintenance on the building. They don't pay the utility costs. They pay nothing of those costs. Yes, that also means they don't get to use that building to generate revenue for all of the concerts and other events held in there, but they don't have the headache of scheduling those, staffing those, paying expenses, etc. They also, in their agreement with the city of Fargo to get it built, got them to the build it on the NW side of campus, so they still have an on campus facilities. They negotiated where they still get a split of concession sales. They still get gate revenue. The biggest downside for NDSU is they can't renovate the stadium to get more seats, upgrade things they may want upgraded, etc. without the city approving it and then the population voting on it. They are stuck in that building as the cost to build a larger dome to be more "FBS quality" is prohibitive to their budgets because all of a sudden funds can't be given to other programs like they are. The voters in Fargo aren't going to vote for any tax/funds to go to build a brand new building for NDSU to play in. As big as their donors are they aren't big enough to get a modern 25-40k domed stadium, and I have significant doubts they are willing to actually play home games outside again even with an FBS move meaning no more playoff games at home in December.

UND rents Alerus for games. I don't know the exact total but it's a drop in the bucket compared to having to build and maintain their own indoor facility. Beyond just that they have every athletic building paid for, built, and maintained by the Ralph and Betty Englelstad Trust. They have a hockey arena that is better than any other D1 school, regardless of their school and budget size. It is NHL caliber but college sized at just over 11000. The build cost was 15 million and the Engelstad's donated about 12 million up front. Once it was completed they donated another 13 million. Their basketball arena (The Betty Engelstad Sioux Center), while not amazing, was built entirely by the trust and upfront funded by over 7 million donated. That entire area has been developed into a place that is called "University Village". In that same area the university build their WRC and it has commercial space that has been added as part of the development including two strip malls, two banks, restaurants, a gast station, and student housing. Recently additional townhomes were built in that area and the school of medicine and health sciences built in that area.This has allowed UND to dump tens of millions of dollars into other athletic projects - specifically the Frtiz Pollard Athletic Center. Now, the downside to all of this is they are completely beholden to the Engelstad trust. They have to deal with the fact that the name on all of their buildings, athletic and academic, is a well know Nazi and racist. They aren't allowed to remove a single Fighting Sioux logo from any facility or they are cut off from all funds and lose access to those buildings. It's a fine line they have to walk, but they do it because what it allows them to do.

This got far longer than I meant for it to be, but it's really not odd what they've been able to do. If anything it shows just how impressive what App State, Georgia Southern, Marshall, even UNI in the 00s were able to do. The Dakota 4, and Montana schools, are now the biggest fish in a tiny ass pond beating up on fish that have been starved by their owners.

You OK........?

[clenz]

Yep.

heaven help us if someone actually gives a real answer, with supporting facts.

Im sorry your attention span has been ruined by tiktok. I’ll keep all my posts to 30 seconds or less for length.

['70 Grad]

And also, wasn't there something about the tax laws in SD that encouraged capitol to be flowing into the state? I thought there was some posting on this site discussing how SD was a state that may be attractive for "rich" people/potential donors to migrate to/set up trusts, etc.