WWW.PANTHERNATION.COM
GO PANTHERS!
welcome

Welcome to the best UNI Panther forum on the net!

Become a PN Supporting Member! Get exclusive access to the Panther Den forum and more. Click here for info.

30-minute show exclusively highlighting UNI Athletics. Click here for info.

  • You need to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
  • To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
  • If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the help page by clicking this link.
  • If you have any questions please use the Contact Us form.
This website is not affiliated with the University of Northern Iowa or the UNI Panther Athletic Program.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Offensive strategies in Basketball

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Offensive strategies in Basketball

    I didn’t play basketball in high school. The flow of the game never made much sense to me.
    So I’v been trying to learn more about offensive strategy. Last week I commented that the 09-10 team often had two of Jordan, Adan, and Jake on the court together. But now it seems like basketball has evolved to where CW says there won’t be two. And the 3ManWeave article linked in another thread predict that the top 3 MVC teams will not have a starter taller than 6-9.

    So in what way have things changed?

    Tuttle has brought new offensive strategies. Ok - what are they? What should we look for that is different?

    I found this video about an interesting offense: https://youtu.be/eMdPLhA7drI
    That would be very guard heavy.

  • #2
    The main difference is the volume of three pointers taken by all 5 positions has skyrocketed, and it doesn’t make sense to have bigs on the floor who can’t guard on the perimeter. There are other factors but this has been the biggest difference in the last decade.
    UNI FIGHT

    Originally posted by 9YRPLAN
    iowa sucks, fran sucks, their schedule sucks, iowa fans suck

    Comment


    • #3
      The thing that Tuttle brought was a big European influence.

      Basically, its turned the high post (i.e Phyfe and McDonnell) into a role where they facilitate the offense and either look to find open shooters or look to find guy on a back cut to the rim. This also allows them to step out and shoot the three which has become a big part of the game as 06 alluded to.

      The game is just different now, another 'victim' to the analytics world.
      #MACtion

      Comment


      • #4
        Spacing in general is a huge change. With teams getting more 6'8+ guys that can shoot/handle the ball teams have found that offense is so much easier to run (shooting or driving) when you can spread the floor. Having 2 big standing under the basket makes a team so much easier to guard.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BCPanther View Post
          The thing that Tuttle brought was a big European influence.

          Basically, its turned the high post (i.e Phyfe and McDonnell) into a role where they facilitate the offense and either look to find open shooters or look to find guy on a back cut to the rim. This also allows them to step out and shoot the three which has become a big part of the game as 06 alluded to.

          The game is just different now, another 'victim' to the analytics world.
          I remember reading something about how an NBA team’s staff did an analysis of several seasons and found that if you shot over a certain number of three point attempts every game, your point output and winning percentage increased dramatically. I can’t remember specifics, but it was a large number compared to the average of the time, enough that it changed the offensive philosophy of this team and everyone in the league started copying it. That eventually tickled down to college, which is why you now have a lot of offenses geared towards chucking up three’s from multiple positions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SteinPizza View Post

            I remember reading something about how an NBA team’s staff did an analysis of several seasons and found that if you shot over a certain number of three point attempts every game, your point output and winning percentage increased dramatically. I can’t remember specifics, but it was a large number compared to the average of the time, enough that it changed the offensive philosophy of this team and everyone in the league started copying it. That eventually tickled down to college, which is why you now have a lot of offenses geared towards chucking up three’s from multiple positions.
            Exactly. It's something to the effect that shooting 36% from 3 is better than shooting 55% from 2 over the course of a game. You're always better off taking a contested three over a contested two.
            #MACtion

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by UNIAlum2010 View Post
              Spacing in general is a huge change. With teams getting more 6'8+ guys that can shoot/handle the ball teams have found that offense is so much easier to run (shooting or driving) when you can spread the floor. Having 2 big standing under the basket makes a team so much easier to guard.
              But, again watching the 09-10 team, when the bigs were in, they weren’t standing under the basket. They each shot and made 3s. Jake and Adam more than Jordan, but still.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SteinPizza View Post

                I remember reading something about how an NBA team’s staff did an analysis of several seasons and found that if you shot over a certain number of three point attempts every game, your point output and winning percentage increased dramatically. I can’t remember specifics, but it was a large number compared to the average of the time, enough that it changed the offensive philosophy of this team and everyone in the league started copying it. That eventually tickled down to college, which is why you now have a lot of offenses geared towards chucking up three’s from multiple positions.
                My question is that analysis static - does it hold true if everyone's behavior changes? or was it simply a transitory advantage that evaporated once most people adopted the same strategy?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by sivert View Post

                  But, again watching the 09-10 team, when the bigs were in, they weren’t standing under the basket. They each shot and made 3s. Jake and Adam more than Jordan, but still.
                  This is what people seem to forget.

                  Yes, Adam was 6'9 but he took 69 3s as a senior and 164 for his career. He went from going 2-24 as a freshman (8%) to 37% as a senior shooting almost 3 times as many 3s.

                  Jake was lamented for the number of 3's he shot by most everyone. He was one of the best post defenders we've had but offensively he was much more a swing player as he took 383 in his career (130 as SO 113 as a JR and 100 as a SR) and shot 33% from deep.

                  Seth took 109 in his career, but only 9 as a freshman. He went 9, 18, 38, 44. Part of what made him so damn dangerous was the fact he was a 44% of them as a senior. So many times he'd pump fake, the guy would bite and he'd drive around them for a dunk or an assist

                  Jordan didn't shoot many 3s, but he would move around the high post/key and screen as well. The history of Jake's teams have always had one "post", 3 "guards" and 1 "swing post". The vast majority of college ball - and UNI has gone to 2 "guards" 2 wings and 1 more combo post. Spacing is a major thing now.

                  Line ups are no longer 6' 6'2 6'5 6'7 6'10. They are most like 6'1 6'3 6'6 6'7 6'9.

                  Skill sets are no longer
                  dribble/pass
                  Shoot
                  Slash
                  mid range
                  Hook shot post moves

                  They are now everyone does everything. A guy that's 6'10 and has to be stuck on the block to be effective is now a match up nightmare on defense when he's trying to guard someone that is 6'10 and can move. With how athletic everyone has become having a guy that can't leave the block clogs cutting and passing lanes.


                  If I had to guess what has been "missing" is the mean presence in the post though, I'd agree. O'Rear and Marvin had that. Jake had that one defense. Seth had it on defense. Guys that would try to break someone to get a rebound or set a screen.
                  Last edited by clenz; 10-01-2019, 09:25 AM.
                  GO PANTHERS!!!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The reason I like college football and basketball more than the pros is the diversity of offenses. In football the academies still run the wishbone, a revolutionary offense in the 70s. Paul Westhead ran a unique high scoring offense at Loyola Marymount and this year Marshall will visit with a modern high scoring offense. That should be interesting. Grinnell has a famed three-point offense system that a lot of high schools copy. Jake now likes to play four guards and one forward. Last year it worked better when he finally started playing Dahl a third to a half of a game because we lacked physically so bad. This year Phyfe will take that spot and he has better feet and scoring ability and more physical than McDonnell and less physical than Dahl. He also is very inexperienced, hopefully the year off will make him less foul-prone and make him better right off the bat. I simply don't agree that you can't have a true 5 anymore. Loyola has one and is two-time defending champs (Krutwig is a bad 3-point shooter except for hitting one against us). Many good teams have a five that can't make threes and there are teams like Missouri State that have three 6-8 starters which arguably none are true 5s.
                    West Virginia who we play has a true 5 in Culver. Iowa and Wisconsin have true 5s. Not sure if we scrimmaging Wisconsin this year. I consider a true five as one who is tall, physical and has block moves but likely won't hit threes. I don't consider McDonnell, Phyfe or Biggie a true 5.
                    The good thing is we have a lot of experience back and we should start out faster than teams like Missouri State which has to work in new transfers. I still am hopeful Jake will work in two bigs at a time because three of our four bigs have good feet and Dahl is extremely disruptive with his size. Maybe Betz will make me happy in a few years at 6-6 and a leaper. Right now watching Berhow, a very athletic guard have to take on 6-8 guys is not appealing. I also hope the five guard experience that Jake tried some last year is buried when Drake's McGlynn dunked on it in about 3 seconds. The good news we have enough talent to play 4 guards sometimes and 3 guards sometimes if the coach is willing to do it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Trapped in California View Post

                      My question is that analysis static - does it hold true if everyone's behavior changes? or was it simply a transitory advantage that evaporated once most people adopted the same strategy?
                      Could be. However, my guess is if an NBA or college team adopted an old school approach of playing a couple of immobile bigs, taking lots of close range shots, with only one or two players capable of shooting threes, they wouldn’t have success. Basketball is designed to be a mobile, athletic game, and every recent rule change favors that.

                      Your point is interesting though, since someone is bound to morph the current model into the next fad. What that looks like probably won’t be relying on post moves, but who knows?

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X