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  • Originally posted by BCPanther View Post

    One more because it's just so factually inaccurate.

    Career 3 point percentage:

    Spencer Haldeman 39.2%
    AJ Green 39.1%

    That AJ Green has done nothing for this program.

    Though you hated the 3 ball anyway?
    LMAO. AJ not being a "pure shooter" is one take I never thought I would see. This troll doesn't even know what that means ha

    Comment


    • Originally posted by BCPanther View Post

      One more because it's just so factually inaccurate.

      Career 3 point percentage:

      Spencer Haldeman 39.2%
      AJ Green 39.1%

      That AJ Green has done nothing for this program.

      Though you hated the 3 ball anyway?
      Green’s a volume shooter and needs lots of looks to get the feel. That happens to everyone to some degree, but less so for guys with sound mechanics. I didn’t say Green was a poor player, obviously not, he’s single handedly carried the program. But he needs the ball and needs shots to be effective. He doesn’t have sound mechanics. I don’t have the stats, but I bet Haldeman shot a similar percentage on “far” fewer attempts. Perhaps you can confirm or disconfirm. Regardless, the point I was making was that Born is a similar shooter, just 6 inches shorter and without Green’s ability to score in the paint. I think he’s going to struggle to find a role as a result, and the team will be terrible if his role is to be the scorer shooting 30 footers. The team badly needs a guard that can get by people, score in the mid-range, and create. Right now they are mainly shooting contested 3’s and that’s a recipe for losing. If you disagree with that, you don’t know a thing about basketball and I’m not going to argue with you.
      Last edited by Big I; 12-28-2021, 03:39 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Big I View Post

        Green’s a volume shooter and needs lots of looks to get the feel. That happens to everyone to some degree, but less so for guys with sound mechanics. I didn’t say Green was a poor player, obviously not, he’s single handedly carried the program. But he needs the ball and needs shots to be effective. He doesn’t have sound mechanics. I don’t have the stats, but I bet Haldeman shot a similar percentage on “far” fewer attempts. Perhaps you can confirm or disconfirm. Regardless, the point I was making was that Born is a similar shooter, just 6 inches shorter and without Green’s ability to score in the paint. I think he’s going to struggle to find a role as a result, and the team will be terrible if his role is to be the scorer shooting 30 footers. The team badly needs a guard that can get by people, score in the mid-range, and create. Right now they are mainly shooting contested 3’s and that’s a recipe for losing.
        You just described Trey Campbell. Kid gets downhill.
        #MACtion

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BCPanther View Post

          You just described Trey Campbell. Kid gets downhill.
          I don’t know anything about future recruits but hopefully so, because the team needs that badly. Hopefully this kid can also pull up and hit the 12 footer.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BCPanther View Post

            You just described Trey Campbell. Kid gets downhill.
            Good (hopefully). Realistically you should have a few of these guys on your roster EVERY year, not one every year or one every other year. That’s been one of this program’s biggest failings, IMO.

            As for the original post which started this, it’s dead on accurate. Not just college, but the NBA as well. If AJ ever makes an NBA roster, it will be as a shooter (role player). See Kyle Korver if you want a blueprint to success.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Big I View Post

              I don’t know anything about future recruits but hopefully so, because the team needs that badly. Hopefully this kid can also pull up and hit the 12 footer.
              I think you should read this post and look at the charts. Your commentary on basketball is really outdated and way you go about criticizing the the team does not make sense because of it. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing or having a negative POV; this place could use some more diversity of thought imo. But it can't be ignorant nonsense. I would love to not have to put this new account of yours on snooze mode too.

              Tip: a pull up 12 footer is an absolute garbage shot.

              https://shottracker.com/articles/ana...shot-selection

              Comment


              • Originally posted by not a drake fan View Post
                I think you should read this post and look at the charts. Your commentary on basketball is really outdated and way you go about criticizing the the team does not make sense because of it. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing or having a negative POV; this place could use some more diversity of thought imo. But it can't be ignorant nonsense. I would love to not have to put this new account of yours on snooze mode too.
                Tip: a pull up 12 footer is an absolute garbage shot.
                https://shottracker.com/articles/ana...shot-selection
                Wow … you’ve never played basketball I take it. Without getting into the heart of the D, you don’t get any open 3’s, and in college basketball, you don’t get layups, the help side will step up and if you can’t pull-up, you get a charge. The alternative is the runner that all these kids are shooting, but they shoot that because they don’t put in the time to develop the strong legs and balance to shoot a pull-up. Please don’t show some garbage analysis of NBA by a full-time mine crafter. One, its probably complete bs (how do you determined say contested or uncontested? For example). Second, if you didn’t notice, they play different defense in the NBA. The game and defensive rules in the NBA are designed to let players dunk or shoot the 3.

                A team that does nothing but a weave above the foul line and then chucks a contested 3 at the end of the shot clock will surely lose most of the time. Players need to get into the heart of the D and be a threat at about the 10-12 foot range to draw defenders. An alternative is a solid back-to-the-basket player, but that’s another lost art and only the blue bloods have a post player nowadays.

                You might notice that scoring is down in college basketball. The good teams have a means of drawing defenders to open up shooters. We used to have a guy named Washpun that could get in the lane … I suppose you’re going to say his game is outdated?
                Last edited by Big I; 12-28-2021, 11:28 PM.

                Comment


                • Shots between 12-18 feet are the worst shots in basketball.

                  It's literally impossible to ignore the data around that.

                  Comment


                  • Yeah, it's nice to have a guy who can hit a 12-15 footer in desperation, but you really should be only shooting from 3-5 feet in or shooting 3's. I'm not saying you are wrong in regards to the offense getting stuck and shooting contested 3's. That absolutely happens, but the solution definitely isn't shooting mid range jumpers. To me, this is where Jacobson has some work ahead of him: Outside of the defense being just atrocious to start the year, the offense has to find a different system when teams lock down their usual system. I know the guys were sick in Hawaii, but we made life easy for Liberty and Wyoming defensively. Our quality of shots compared to our opponents was just not good.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PantherAlum09 View Post
                      Yeah, it's nice to have a guy who can hit a 12-15 footer in desperation, but you really should be only shooting from 3-5 feet in or shooting 3's. I'm not saying you are wrong in regards to the offense getting stuck and shooting contested 3's. That absolutely happens, but the solution definitely isn't shooting mid range jumpers. To me, this is where Jacobson has some work ahead of him: Outside of the defense being just atrocious to start the year, the offense has to find a different system when teams lock down their usual system. I know the guys were sick in Hawaii, but we made life easy for Liberty and Wyoming defensively. Our quality of shots compared to our opponents was just not good.
                      Our defense really hasn't been that bad, which is what is so head scratching. We're 117 in KenPom defensive efficiency and giving up less than a point per possession. Offensively, we're 122 and scoring more than a point per possession. We're also the best defensive rebounding team in the country. Statistically we should be 9-2 or so, that's what makes all of this so frustrating.

                      Being the 5th unluckiest team by his luck metric sure does seem right though.
                      #MACtion

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BCPanther View Post

                        Our defense really hasn't been that bad, which is what is so head scratching. We're 117 in KenPom defensive efficiency and giving up less than a point per possession. Offensively, we're 122 and scoring more than a point per possession. We're also the best defensive rebounding team in the country. Statistically we should be 9-2 or so, that's what makes all of this so frustrating.

                        Being the 5th unluckiest team by his luck metric sure does seem right though.
                        I really like KenPom and trust it as a resource, but I haven't done a deep dive into how he figures each of the numbers. Does that defensive efficiency take into account the quality of looks the opposing team gets? I'm just not sold on the luck and defensive efficiency numbers for us. It just feels like occasionally we "luck" out and have a team like Richmond shoot poorly from 3 even though they are getting quality looks all game. On the other hand we also have teams making 15 plus 3's each game against us. Is this really a luck thing? Or is it a product of poor defense? I guess I side with the latter on that.

                        Comment


                        • Haldeman is a name I haven't seen in quite a while. I don't remember much about his shooting, but I what I do remember is the effect he had when on the court; always seemed to be in the right spot defensively and helped keep the offense in control.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by PantherAlum09 View Post
                            Yeah, it's nice to have a guy who can hit a 12-15 footer in desperation, but you really should be only shooting from 3-5 feet in or shooting 3's. I'm not saying you are wrong in regards to the offense getting stuck and shooting contested 3's. That absolutely happens, but the solution definitely isn't shooting mid range jumpers. To me, this is where Jacobson has some work ahead of him: Outside of the defense being just atrocious to start the year, the offense has to find a different system when teams lock down their usual system. I know the guys were sick in Hawaii, but we made life easy for Liberty and Wyoming defensively. Our quality of shots compared to our opponents was just not good.
                            You need to get into the heart of the D if you want open 3’s and anyone who has played high level basketball knows you don’t get layups. As a result you need to be able to get to the 12 foot mark and hit >75% if left open. That draws the D and opens the 3. That’s how you score on offense. You rarely get 3 footers, but if you can get into the middle and be a threat, you draw the D which can open the deep ball.

                            Let me ask you experts a question, when a player drives or comes off the pick and roll and gets inside the foul line, do defensive players leave them open or do they help out and stop the player from making the 12 footer? A 12 footer is easier than a 30 footer so they help and try to stop the easy one.

                            Now, do the big men step up and help? Usually not as a general rule is you don’t help ‘up’ because that leaves open the bounce pass for the dunk.

                            Without a player that can get into that mid range or post up, we will struggle.


                            Comment


                            • Samrt defensive coaches are going to coach their guys to let a guy shoot from 15 all day every day. It's literally the worst shot in all of basketball. Period.

                              These numbers are a couple years old but they haven't changed

                              Points Per Shot by location
                              At the hoop - 1.22
                              All other 2 pointers - .82
                              Corner 3 - 1.16
                              All other 3s - 1.1

                              Now you'll go "If they don't contest they'll drain those all day long"....but not really

                              Contested vs uncontested
                              Open 2 - .85
                              Contested - .8
                              Open 3 - 1.10
                              Contested 3 - .95

                              By shot top
                              Pull up 2 - .79
                              Catch and shoot 2 - .86
                              Pull up 3 - .97
                              Catch and shoot 3 - 1.12


                              There is an overwhelming amount of research on this. One researcher broke it down by 2 foot instances and distance of closest defender. From 14 feet with a defender 4 feet away (what would be considered a largely open look) players averaged .8 points per shot. A 21 foot jump shot with 4 feet of space averages .78 points per shot. From 24 feet with 4 feet of space shots average 1.06 points per shot.


                              No one is hitting 75% from 12 feet. NBA shooters from 12 feet with 4 feet of space shoot 40%. Once you get outside of the restricted area FG% plummet. You go from 75% at 3 feet to under 50% by the time you get to 6 feet and from there you are at 40% the time you hit 11 feet. There has been one team over the last two deacdes that has successfully use the midrange jump shot to actually make a difference in games/their season. Golden State at peak Golden State - turns out having a handful of the best scorers/shooters in all of NBA history helps with that.

                              Does it help to have guys who can get inside? Yes. Is the more "traditional" method how to create offense through driving to the FT line the best offense in 2022? Not even close.

                              Comment


                              • This guy has the same energy as the old baseball fans who go "I'd rather someone get singles 30% of the time rather than home runs 20% of the time."

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