Creighton

[TheMacHouse]

ESPN suprise suprise just spent 10 minutes ripping on Creighton maybe being one of the last teams in over Arizona and Penn St. I think every year the MVC has an at-large team they do this and makes me sick. There are other mid-majors to rip on if they like to also. St Mary's resume looks worse than Creightons and Dayton will be an at-large and Creighton beat them. They should just take all mid-majors out and make the NCAA tournament full of BCS teams. I'm sure DePaul would be a good team to watch play again. If Creighton makes it ESPN will be unbearable to watch.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Creighton

ESPN suprise suprise just spent 10 minutes ripping on Creighton maybe being one of the last teams in over Arizona and Penn St. I think every year the MVC has an at-large team they do this and makes me sick. There are other mid-majors to rip on if they like to also. St Mary's resume looks worse than Creightons and Dayton will be an at-large and Creighton beat them. They should just take all mid-majors out and make the NCAA tournament full of BCS teams. I'm sure DePaul would be a good team to watch play again. If Creighton makes it ESPN will be unbearable to watch.

The arguments aren't outrageous against Creighton (and mid-majors), I just disagree with their conclusion. Digger the Douche was befuddled at least once - that was fun to watch.

They leave out the one key piece of information. Sure, mid-majors can go out and "play somebody", but the reason it's almost impossible to judge BCS v Mid-Major teams by a single standard is that every BCS team gets to host, in their building, a few outstanding teams a year. No mid-major gets that opportunity.

[TheMacHouse]

Re: Creighton

I actually agree that Arizona has a very good chance to make it but I think it will be over St Mary's and not Creighton. I really think Penn St shouldn't even be discussed. I think if you are an at-large team you should have to beat at least one good team out of conference and they did not.

[UNIChippewa]

Re: Creighton

Yeah, normally I like Digger, but I couldn't figure out why he kept on using the term "roster" to pump up Arizona. Why on earth is the "roster" so important? It's how the TEAM plays on the court that is important, not the frakkin' roster! If talent on the roster was the end-all, be-all, then Connecticut would have beaten George Mason by 50 a few years ago. Heck, I'm pretty sure Auburn has more pure talent on their "roster" than we do and that didn't stop us from beating them.

[DrewDog]

Re: Creighton

ESPN suprise suprise just spent 10 minutes ripping on Creighton maybe being one of the last teams in over Arizona and Penn St. I think every year the MVC has an at-large team they do this and makes me sick. There are other mid-majors to rip on if they like to also. St Mary's resume looks worse than Creightons and Dayton will be an at-large and Creighton beat them. They should just take all mid-majors out and make the NCAA tournament full of BCS teams. I'm sure DePaul would be a good team to watch play again. If Creighton makes it ESPN will be unbearable to watch.

I scared our cats when I was yelling at the TV and Digger and Bilas this morning. However, I would not paint all of ESPN's talking heads with the same brush as Digger and Bilas. There are some their talking heads have done their homework and think more mid-majors should be at-large bids.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Creighton

Digger's a dip. He tired to make the "point" earlier that there have been 6(ish) mid-major at large bids the past few years, and that proves that only 6(ish) should get in during a given year.

Uh?

Lunardi had a good piece of information I'd like to see backed up...he said the double-digit seeded mid-major is more likely to win in an upset that the double digit seeded BCS league team.

Everyone seems to have Creighton "in", but Sports Illustrated (and I think ESPN would agree) believe that if Mississippi State pulls the upset today, that steals Creighton's bid.

[Panther789]

Re: Creighton

Digger's a dip. He tired to make the "point" earlier that there have been 6(ish) mid-major at large bids the past few years, and that proves that only 6(ish) should get in during a given year.

Uh?

Lunardi had a good piece of information I'd like to see backed up...he said the double-digit seeded mid-major is more likely to win in an upset that the double digit seeded BCS league team.

Everyone seems to have Creighton "in", but Sports Illustrated (and I think ESPN would agree) believe that if Mississippi State pulls the upset today, that steals Creighton's bid.

IMO, the mid-major that should be in the most danger is St. Marys. I realize that Mills went down and that makes their case unique, but they were blown out against Gonzaga with him back in the line-up.

FWIW, last year, BCS at large bubble teams did much better than non-BCS at large bubble teams. However, I don't think that is the norm.

http://www.panthernation.com/showthread.php?t=17636

[DrewDog]

Re: Creighton

For those of you who saw the segment around 11:15, did you notice the little dig Hubert took at Digger (whether intentional or not) related to it is about who you schedule in your non-conference schedule? Digger was always known for loading up ND's non-conference schedule with a baker's dozen of cupcakes. Much the same way UConn does it now. Syracuse had this wrap for a number of years and after being passed over as an at-large, Boeheim went out and played some folks in his non-conference schedule (Florida, Kansas, Memphis).

[TheMacHouse]

Re: Creighton

Digger's a dip. He tired to make the "point" earlier that there have been 6(ish) mid-major at large bids the past few years, and that proves that only 6(ish) should get in during a given year.

Uh?

Lunardi had a good piece of information I'd like to see backed up...he said the double-digit seeded mid-major is more likely to win in an upset that the double digit seeded BCS league team.

Everyone seems to have Creighton "in", but Sports Illustrated (and I think ESPN would agree) believe that if Mississippi State pulls the upset today, that steals Creighton's bid.

Will see if this works but it was posted on insider a couple of weeks ago. I usually try not to copy some of the insider stuff but ESPN just frustrates me sometimes so here goes.


Going back 10 years, I have examined every double-digit seed from a BCS conference ("Middling Majors") and all other double-digit seeds who received/would have received at-large consideration ("Quality Mids"). The results, even to me, were a bit surprising:

Mid-Majors vs. Middling Majors
BCS Sweet 16s Non-BCS Sweet 16s
So how do mid-majors stack up with the BCS schools when both are double-digit seeds?
The table below shows the cumulative records of those teams seeded in double digits and
which ones reached the Sweet 16 or beyond.
2008 3-6 Villanova 7-9 Davidson (Elite Eight)
Western Kentucky
2007 0-5 none 2-6 none
2006 2-3 none 8-8 George Mason (Final Four)
Bradley
Wichita State
2005 2-3 NC State 4-10 Wisconsin-Milwaukee
2004 0-2 none 4-9 Nevada
2003 2-4 Auburn 4-8 Butler
2002 3-3 Missouri (Elite Eight) 9-10 Kent State (Elite Eight)
Southern Illinois
2001 2-3 Georgetown 10-11 Temple (Elite Eight)
Gonzaga
2000 2-3 Seton Hall 3-8 Gonzaga
1999 3-2 Oklahoma 9-11 Gonzaga (Elite Eight)
Miami (Ohio)
SW Missouri State
Totals 19-34 (.358) 60-90 (.400)


What do you know? Despite being unfavorably seeded by an almost three-to-one margin, the Quality Mids are winning NCAA tournament games at a far greater percentage than the Middling Majors. Let's repeat that: So-called "quality mids" are given double-digit seeds almost three times more often than comparable BCS schools, yet they win more games -- and advance further more often -- than their "middling major" counterparts.


OK the table didn't copy well but "middling majors" are the 19-34 (.358) and "quality mids" are the 60-90 (.400).

[06panther10]

Re: Creighton

That was really annoying watching that espn pre-game. ALL three analysts (I use that term loosely) said they would replace CU and Saint Marys with two BCS schools. What a joke.

I also LOVE the Hubert Davis "eye test". I wonder how many freaking times his "eyes" have seen CU play this year.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Creighton

Creighton needs to be watching this SEC game closely. I think this becomes CU's elimination game.

[UNIChippewa]

Re: Creighton

That was really annoying watching that espn pre-game. ALL three analysts (I use that term loosely) said they would replace CU and Saint Marys with two BCS schools. What a joke.

What irritates me the most about that set-up this morning was the complete lack of "mid-major" representation in that "panel". Digger used to coach Notre Dame, Hubert played college ball at North Carolina, and Jay played at Duke. I think you can make a reasonable argument that at the very least there is a subconscious bias towards the BCS schools from those three. Why not have Tom Brennan, former coach of Vermont, sitting with those guys? He's very entertaining and knowledgeable. Or even have Gottlieb, who at least plays the devil's advocate for mid-majors?

I can respect Hubert and Jay, as I think they bring reason and logic to their arguments, but Digger these days is a posturing buffoon and can't be taken seriously.

[TheMacHouse]

Re: Creighton

Whatever credibility which was small that Digger had was lost today. When he said Auburn should be in I think he was wrong. I know UNI beat Auburn and they are a good team but before February then had ZERO top 100 wins. I know the committee likes to look at the most recent games but I think you should have to show up and play for more than 1 month of the season to make the NCAA.

As far as looking at rosters I wonder how many of them could name a player on Creighton without lookin at a sheet. Also maybe MLB should choose it's playoff teams by roster so the Yankees could make it every year. It is pretty amazing that sports guys that do the shows on ESPN like them haven't figured out that good rosters don't always make a good teams.