Time to drop Bracket Busters?

[TheMacHouse]

This is probably a crazy question but with fewer mid-majors making the NCAA each year is it time to drop Bracket Busters. It takes up 2 games on the schedule each year when they could try to schedule BCS teams instead. They are going to have to beat them to get more teams in now. Beating quality mids do not count anymore it looks like.

I think every quality mid needs to try to schedule as many BCS teams as possible even if they are mostly road games and if they get turned down they will have to show this to NCAA to force their hands in getting the BCS teams to schedule more quality mids.

[jman2004]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

Look at the Bracketbuster games this year that did nothing, St. Mary's beating Utah State, Creighton beating George Mason . . .

It's a nice try by ESPN, but it doesn't look like the selection committee cares.

[UNIChippewa]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

Well, I don't know if it's time to abandon it completely, although it may not work as well for its intended teams as it used to or what it was intended for. I think this season may have been a bit of an anomaly. I know the power leagues got 30/34 at-large bids this year, but would 1-2 mid-major at-large bids make that much more of a difference?

Also, in a big way this season, the mid-major conferences hurt each other. Cleveland State and Temple could easily have taken away those bids from Creighton and St. Mary's. I would imagine the combined (automatic and at-large) total number of mid-major teams is probably pretty close to what it has been recently.

[Panthers to the Bone]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

More BCS schools will not schedule mids b/c BB is dropped. This is a necessary way to help build strong resumes for MVC-type teams...plus there is some nice tv advantages. Bucknell and Western Michigan were two games that helped UNI get at-large bids (Bucknell more than WMU probably).

This event, plus the new MVC/MWC challenge will be good for our schedule, in addition to the Iowa/ISU and exempt tourney games.

[jman2004]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

More BCS schools will not schedule mids b/c BB is dropped. This is a necessary way to help build strong resumes for MVC-type teams...plus there is some nice tv advantages. Bucknell and Western Michigan were two games that helped UNI get at-large bids (Bucknell more than WMU probably).

This event, plus the new MVC/MWC challenge will be good for our schedule, in addition to the Iowa/ISU and exempt tourney games.

Let's hope . . .

Because like I said, beating Utah State and George Mason did NOTHING for St. Mary's and Creighton. BracketBusters was pretty meaningless this season.

[Coachdags]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

I think the Mids really need the bracket busters, because the majors do not want to schedule them and I do not see the NCAA ever making them....

I think you need to add more cross conference challenges with hopefully some decent conferences. The Big 6 conferences have already started this, and the Mids will never get them, but it would certainly help to play some fresh teams outside of conference and the BB....

UNI is very fortunate to have the Iowa / ISU deal, and hope that continues...

It's all about the Money and the Strongest continue to get stronger, as soon as you get on the radar as a good Mid-Major, I would imagine the Best in the Big 6 is even harder to schedule at times, they can not afford a non-conference lost at home.....

[TheMacHouse]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

Well, I don't know if it's time to abandon it completely, although it may not work as well for its intended teams as it used to or what it was intended for. I think this season may have been a bit of an anomaly. I know the power leagues got 30/34 at-large bids this year, but would 1-2 mid-major at-large bids make that much more of a difference?

Also, in a big way this season, the mid-major conferences hurt each other. Cleveland State and Temple could easily have taken away those bids from Creighton and St. Mary's. I would imagine the combined (automatic and at-large) total number of mid-major teams is probably pretty close to what it has been recently.

I do have to say this years BB had the worst effect compared to previous years. I did look it up and the last 2 years there were 6 mid at large teams each year which was a drop from the previous years. In both of those years it looks like there was at least 2 teams from the mids that stole bids just like this year. The trend seems to be geting worse each year and it looks as though it started after the MVC/CAA year that drew the most complaints from the media.

2008
Temple won A-10 tourny and was 12 seed (2 other A-10's in also)
W Kentucky won Sun Belt tourny was 12 seed(S Alabama in also)

2007
GW won A-10 and was 11 seed (Xavier in also)
Wright St won Horizon and was 14 seed (Butler in also)
New Mex St won WAC and was 13 seed (Nevada in also)
Creighton won MVC and was 10 seed (SIU in also)--maybe stole?

[UNIChippewa]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

I do have to say this years BB had the worst effect compared to previous years. I did look it up and the last 2 years there were 6 mid at large teams each year which was a drop from the previous years. In both of those years it looks like there was at least 2 teams from the mids that stole bids just like this year. The trend seems to be geting worse each year and it looks as though it started after the MVC/CAA year that drew the most complaints from the media.

Good research on your part. For this season, USC and Mississippi State winning their conference tournaments also hurt big-time. Last season I think the only team that did something similar in their tournament was Georgia. Between those two teams and Temple and Cleveland State, that's four bids that were snatched away from "bubble" teams.

I know it's been discussed on here before, but I really think that expanding the tournament to 68 teams is the way to go. Have the last four teams in and the first four teams out play each other for a 12 seed in each regional. That way teams like Creighton, Penn State, San Diego State, etc. have no room to complain about being left out.

[TravelingPanther]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

Glad to have Sienna on next years schedule though.

[TheMacHouse]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

Good research on your part. For this season, USC and Mississippi State winning their conference tournaments also hurt big-time. Last season I think the only team that did something similar in their tournament was Georgia. Between those two teams and Temple and Cleveland State, that's four bids that were snatched away from "bubble" teams.

I know it's been discussed on here before, but I really think that expanding the tournament to 68 teams is the way to go. Have the last four teams in and the first four teams out play each other for a 12 seed in each regional. That way teams like Creighton, Penn State, San Diego State, etc. have no room to complain about being left out.

I don't think expanding the tournament is the way to go and I don't want to make it look like the mids were ripped off this year because you can make a case for a number of high majors and mids for the last spots. I just think the trend is a little distubing and wanted to know how to turn that around.

One last bit of info I looked up before I moved on to who is in instead of who is not that I will share. I looked up the records of the double digit seeds from BCS conferences plus teams talked about the last week that are out (Penn St, Auburn, Florida, Providence) against quality mids (non BCS with sub 100 rpi). Combined the BCS teams were 9-10 with 11 home, 2 away, and 6 neutral games. I think this shows 2 things and that is the quality mids can compete with the middle BCS teams and that the BCS plays few quality mids since 4 of them only played 1 quality mid.

This is my last 2 cents (or more) on this subject at least for this year.

[jman2004]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

I don't think expanding the tournament is the way to go and I don't want to make it look like the mids were ripped off this year because you can make a case for a number of high majors and mids for the last spots. I just think the trend is a little distubing and wanted to know how to turn that around.

I think three mid-majors can make a pretty good argument for being ripped off this year.

Arizona has an impressive victory over Kansas on their resume, but its coupled with losses to Texas A&M, UAB, and UNLV out of conference. Not to mention a losing record in conference play, an RPI of 62, and 5 losses in their last 6 games. How have they "earned" a spot in the tournament? Especially a pretty nice, favorable first round matchup with a "mid-major" team?

Wisconsin . . . I've already posted enough about elsewhere. Their resume is even worse! They beat NO ONE in their non-conference schedule and couldn't even beat the top of their own conference.

I don't like those two selections at all. I think they were slaps in the face to other deserving bubble teams, mid-major or not.

[DWadle1983]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

I think the Mids really need the bracket busters, because the majors do not want to schedule them and I do not see the NCAA ever making them....

I think you need to add more cross conference challenges with hopefully some decent conferences. The Big 6 conferences have already started this, and the Mids will never get them, but it would certainly help to play some fresh teams outside of conference and the BB....

UNI is very fortunate to have the Iowa / ISU deal, and hope that continues...

It's all about the Money and the Strongest continue to get stronger, as soon as you get on the radar as a good Mid-Major, I would imagine the Best in the Big 6 is even harder to schedule at times, they can not afford a non-conference lost at home.....

You're right that the better answer is teams from the top mid-major conferences play more games against each other to improve the quality of non-conference opponents.

When you look at Creighton they lost at home to Drake, which I think was a huge loss for them in the Committee's eyes, and while we don't consider losing to Wichita State to be a bad loss, the Committee likely did.

Even after losing those two games if Creighton had won at either Nebraska, a game they let slip away, or Arkansas Little-Rock, they might have been in.

I imagine in the end Creighton came up a game short. Win one of the four mentioned above, especially the Drake game, and they're in.

This season again showed that mid-majors have very little margin of error so to speak.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

Problem 1 with BB - too many teams, and not enough good ones. It's the battle of the one-bid leagues, and the size of the event overwhelms the marquee games.

Problem 2 with BB - It's team who needs help playing team who needs help. It doesn't address the problem.

[jegbomb52]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

Any way you slice it, 7 from the big 10 is absolutely absurd. 7 from the Big East is about right, maybe 1 more could have came (Providence should have got in before Zona (what a joke).

Creighton got hosed, St. Mary's got hosed. This is a big time sham job by BCS schools. It is going to take another tournament like 2006 with Bradley, WSU, and George Mason to get us respect again.

[CincyPanther88]

Re: Time to drop Bracket Busters?

Any way you slice it, 7 from the big 10 is absolutely absurd. 7 from the Big East is about right, maybe 1 more could have came (Providence should have got in before Zona (what a joke).

Creighton got hosed, St. Mary's got hosed. This is a big time sham job by BCS schools. It is going to take another tournament like 2006 with Bradley, WSU, and George Mason to get us respect again.

Yep. And adding a few more teams just will let that 8th Big 10 or Big East or ACC team in.