Is it acceptable...?

[jman2004]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

I'll tell him. If Jordan doesn't start, Lucas will, not Rody.

I was kidding . . . my point was that Jordan wouldn't be our only "senior" NOT starting on Senior Day. So to start him solely for that reason after he got an OWI is stupid.

I wouldn't start him. Show him there are consequences to your actions. He's lucky he still gets to be a part of this season. Let him come in off the bench and be effective. It's his problem.

[CincyPanther88]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

Let's turn this question on it's head for a minute. When Johnny got hurt and had to miss a game, did he deserve to start when he was able? UNI won the games he didn't play in so maybe they were a better team without him.

In the end, it's not going to matter one way or another. We beat CU by 18 and ODU by 9 without Jordan. However, with Jordan we beat IlSU by 15 and SIU by 12 - both on the road. We beat Creighton on the road and MSU at home by 8. Jordan coming back isn't really going to take much time away from Lucas. Jordan and Lucas have been averaging around 20 minutes each for the last several games before Jordan's suspension. Everything else being equal, I'm going to start the senior in his last home game. In the Valley tournament, if Jake feels that bringing Jordan off the bench will make the team better, I'm all for it.

[Panther-at-Arms]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

Are you seriously equating getting hurt to getting arrested?

[Panther789]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

Are you seriously equating getting hurt to getting arrested?

You are missing the point. It's all about winning basketball games at this point. The punishment is the 3 game suspension.

Just because we are playing well without JE doesn't mean we are better without him. We have been playing great ball for 2 years. We win 2 games without JE, and everyone wants to claim we are better without him.

[Panther-at-Arms]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

You are missing my point. My question was is the 3 game suspension enough? It has nothing to do with how the team plays with or without him. Sometimes there are things more important than winning basketball games.

[JayJ79]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

The above discussion wasn't about Jordan not PLAYING. It was about him not STARTING. There is no question that once he is done with his suspension, he will play (barring some sort of injury in practice or something). It's just whether or not it will be "starting" or "off the bench". Though given Jake's substitution style and the amount of minutes that the bench gets, I don't really see how it is that big a deal either way.

[JayJ79]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

You are missing my point. My question was is the 3 game suspension enough? It has nothing to do with how the team plays with or without him. Sometimes there are things more important than winning basketball games.

I'm just thankful that no one on the team has been caught texting while driving. That could KILL someone.

[jman2004]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

We have been playing great ball for 2 years.

Has Jordan been playing "great" ball for 2 years? Seems to me it's taken him 3 years to become a "star" this season . . . then look what happens!

[jman2004]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

Just because we are playing well without JE doesn't mean we are better without him. We have been playing great ball for 2 years. We win 2 games without JE, and everyone wants to claim we are better without him.

You're right, I overreacted about our playing style with and without Jordan, but you can't deny that we've looked loose and fired up without him. 70+ points, two games in a row!

And Jay is right, Jacobson substitutes so much anyway. You're acting as if we don't want Jordan to play at all. That's not what anyone has said. He's sat out the suspension. He will get his minutes back. He will play. I have no problems with that.

However there is a little bit of "prestige" that comes with being labeled a "starter". I don't think the kid deserves that prestige. That's all I'm saying.

[jman2004]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

Let's turn this question on it's head for a minute. When Johnny got hurt and had to miss a game, did he deserve to start when he was able? UNI won the games he didn't play in so maybe they were a better team without him.

If you want Jordan to get his "start" back, that's your opinion . . . but this is a really silly comparison.

[CincyPanther88]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

If you want Jordan to get his "start" back, that's your opinion . . . but this is a really silly comparison.

Why is it a silly comparison? The argument for benching Jordan doesn't seem to be that it's part of his punishment. The 3 game suspension - plus his legal punishment and whatever other punishment Jake decides to hand out - was his punishment. Now if Jake told him that not starting anymore is part of his punishment, then I'm fine with it. The reasoning for not starting him seems to now be that the team is playing better without him. Now if that's the argument, then you could make the argument that since they did as well without Johnny, he should have been benched when he came back. Of course this is the same bunch that wants Kwadzo benched every time he misses a shot.

[Trapped in California]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

I disagree completely. We are on perhaps the greatest 2 year run in the history of UNI basketball, and JE has started all but 2 of those games.

Lets not overreact. The guys have done a great job of stepping up, but I love the rotation we had prior to the suspension.

Never **** with a winning streak - the rose goes to the front

[jman2004]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

Why is it a silly comparison? The argument for benching Jordan doesn't seem to be that it's part of his punishment. The 3 game suspension - plus his legal punishment and whatever other punishment Jake decides to hand out - was his punishment. Now if Jake told him that not starting anymore is part of his punishment, then I'm fine with it. The reasoning for not starting him seems to now be that the team is playing better without him. Now if that's the argument, then you could make the argument that since they did as well without Johnny, he should have been benched when he came back. Of course this is the same bunch that wants Kwadzo benched every time he misses a shot.

It's a silly comparison because the only two in this thread that have talked about not-starting Jordan (myself and Panther-at-Arms) have mentioned it precisely because we feel it could be an "unofficial" part of his punishment. Sure I think the team has risen to the challenge these last few games, but that's not what bothers me about starting Jordan.

I said this earlier:

You're acting as if we don't want Jordan to play at all. That's not what anyone has said. He's sat out the suspension. He will get his minutes back. He will play. I have no problems with that.

Bringing up games won when Johnny was hurt, doesn't make sense because we're not saying that Jordan shouldn't play. Kwadzo's missed shots and Johnny's one injury aren't the issue. Jordan's OWI is.

Bottom line: I don't think a "senior" getting an OWI with only 4 games remaining in one of the best Panther basketball seasons EVER deserves the "prestige" of being labeled a starter again this season, especially not on "senior" night.

If you think that Jordan should "start" because we all make mistakes, that's your opinion. And you definitely won't be alone. I would just be a little disappointed, that's all. I don't want it to turn into a big debate because as you've said, he's been suspended, he's served it, and that's that. There's too much to be happy about this season for this to become too big of a deal. I've said what I think and I'm done now. If he starts on senior night, it's not the decision that I'd make, but I'm sure I'll get over it!

[JayJ79]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

Put all the athletes in a nunnery! So that the only things they can do is schoolwork and practice/prep/training for their sport. That way they can't get in trouble at all.

Also, I heard one of the guards got a C on their biology test last week. That is unacceptable and they don't deserve the "prestige" of being labeled a starter if they can't pull at least a B.

[BCPanther]

Re: Is it acceptable...?

Anybody that thinks that JE won't or doesn't deserve to start next Saturday night is delusional, IMO.

Jake has said over and over that JE's exemplary behavior for 3 1/2 years earned him the respect of his teammates and coaching staff and that they are fully aware this was outside of JE's character. Its not like JE has had problem after problem. He has 'banked' enough points to earn that spot come next Saturday night.