Valley Power Rankings - December 12

[electricmayhem]

Here are the Missouri Valley Power Rankings for this week -- another solid week for the league... four teams in the top-35 in the RPI rankings!

http://www.examiner.com/missouri-valley-basketball-in-national/missouri-valley-power-rankings-december-12-panthers-going-dancing

[jman2004]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

I am sorry, and I may be incredibly biased, but I don't know how in the world, purely based on this season to date, UNI is not #1 in your MVC power rankings. I don't get it.

I think what you're saying is that Creighton and Wichita St. came in at #1 and #2 and you don't think they've done anything deserving of being dropped. (AP poll voters must though, seeing that UNI got 7 votes whereas WSU only got 1)

Aside from that, if you would have given everyone in the league a totally clean slate at the beginning of the year, there's no way that UNI is not the most impressive team in this conference so far this season.

Creighton: rpi 17, sos 86, they've only played 3 teams with an rpi south of 100 this season and they've gone 2-1 against them; opened the year with games against NC A&T and Chicago St (rpi's of 318 and 314 respectively), 2 point victory at SD St. is best win

Wichita St: rpi 30, sos 37, lost back to back games to Alabama (rpi 14) and Temple (rpi 41), that was their chance to prove legitimacy, NOT wins at 4-6 Tulsa (rpi 182) and home against 4-5 Utah St (rpi 195), home game blowout of UNLV (rpi 23) was best victory

UNI: rpi 4, sos 10, played 4 teams with rpi's south of 100, another one, Old Dominion (rpi 107) just a bit outside, only loss comes at 1:00 am on the west coast, immediately following a road win AT ODU, also only played 3 true road games and have gone 2-1 in them, but road games have been more difficult than either Creighton or Wichita (in regards to rpi), Colorado St (rpi 40) is currently best win (home game with Ohio rpi 20, coming up next Tuesday)

All three have been winning significantly, but UNI has managed to do so against MUCH stiffer competition.

Avg margin of victory:
Creighton: 19.1 (30+ point victories over NC A&T and Chi St cloud that)
Wichita St: 16.0
UNI: 12.9

If these three would've honestly started with a clean slate, looking at the schedule as is, stats as is, no preseason bias whatsoever, UNI would be HANDS DOWN the most impressive of the three. Sorry.

[Born-a-Panther]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

I am sorry, and I may be incredibly biased, but I don't know how in the world, purely based on this season to date, UNI is not #1 in your MVC power rankings. I don't get it.

I think what you're saying is that Creighton and Wichita St. came in at #1 and #2 and you don't think they've done anything deserving of being dropped. (AP poll voters must though, seeing that UNI got 7 votes whereas WSU only got 1)

Aside from that, if you would have given everyone in the league a totally clean slate at the beginning of the year, there's no way that UNI is not the most impressive team in this conference so far this season.

Creighton: rpi 17, sos 86, they've only played 3 teams with an rpi south of 100 this season and they've gone 2-1 against them; opened the year with games against NC A&T and Chicago St (rpi's of 318 and 314 respectively), 2 point victory at SD St. is best win

Wichita St: rpi 30, sos 37, lost back to back games to Alabama (rpi 14) and Temple (rpi 41), that was their chance to prove legitimacy, NOT wins at 4-6 Tulsa (rpi 182) and home against 4-5 Utah St (rpi 195), home game blowout of UNLV (rpi 23) was best victory

UNI: rpi 4, sos 10, played 4 teams with rpi's south of 100, another one, Old Dominion (rpi 107) just a bit outside, only loss comes at 1:00 am on the west coast, immediately following a road win AT ODU, also only played 3 true road games and have gone 2-1 in them, but road games have been more difficult than either Creighton or Wichita (in regards to rpi), Colorado St (rpi 40) is currently best win (home game with Ohio rpi 20, coming up next Tuesday)

All three have been winning significantly, but UNI has managed to do so against MUCH stiffer competition.

Avg margin of victory:
Creighton: 19.1 (30+ point victories over NC A&T and Chi St cloud that)
Wichita St: 16.0
UNI: 12.9

If these three would've honestly started with a clean slate, looking at the schedule as is, stats as is, no preseason bias whatsoever, UNI would be HANDS DOWN the most impressive of the three. Sorry.

Agreed. Kaboom.

[ceaser150]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

Ignore the resume. Creighton and WSU pass the "eye test" and UNI does not.

[jnutt]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

Ignore the resume. Creighton and WSU pass the "eye test" and UNI does not.

thanks sportstalkmatt

[achrist70]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

thanks sportstalkmatt

That just made my day

[9YRPLAN]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

sportstalkmatt=jelly of the month club

[panther-state]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

I don't know, all three of them are very good and if they are able to keep up their winning ways into March, they will all have very good resumes and a shot at dancing. These rankings mean nothing (even after conference play begins), the Panthers are still getting their respect and CU and WSU deserve some as well.

Creighton beat SDSU (but I'm not really sure what they're prospects are for this season) and that's it but Wichita has taken down Utah St (who is traditionally pretty good) and blewout UNLV who was ranked at the time. Their only losses are a ranked Alabama team and a close one to Temple who is usually a strong team.

[jman2004]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

I don't know, all three of them are very good and if they are able to keep up their winning ways into March, they will all have very good resumes and a shot at dancing. These rankings mean nothing (even after conference play begins), the Panthers are still getting their respect and CU and WSU deserve some as well.

Creighton beat SDSU (but I'm not really sure what they're prospects are for this season) and that's it but Wichita has taken down Utah St (who is traditionally pretty good) and blewout UNLV who was ranked at the time. Their only losses are a ranked Alabama team and a close one to Temple who is usually a strong team.

I understand that. I'm just saying that if the slate was clean, and preconceived notions didn't exist, on paper, I think UNI would be the most impressive team in the Valley thus far.

[panther-state]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

Yeah that's a fair argument but I think you have to take some preconceptions into consideration. Heck the preconception that this was a "rebuilding" year for us should be helping us if anything, and to an extent I believe it is.

[porkchop]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

I am sorry, and I may be incredibly biased, but I don't know how in the world, purely based on this season to date, UNI is not #1 in your MVC power rankings. I don't get it.

[Rant]

If these three would've honestly started with a clean slate, looking at the schedule as is, stats as is, no preseason bias whatsoever, UNI would be HANDS DOWN the most impressive of the three. Sorry.

I like your energy, but if you look at the stats you posted and the eyeball test I think the top 3 are fine.

Creighton is the #1 team at this point end of story. They are ranked nationally in both polls and have played fantastic bball.

UNI and Wichita State are #2a and #2b at this point. Chop em' how you want, at this point I don't really care; things will shake out when conference play begins.

If all 3 win the top 3 will stay the same next week. As impressive as Ohio is, and their accompanying RPI boost, they won’t be a sexy enough name to move the needle.

[jman2004]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

I like your energy, but if you look at the stats you posted and the eyeball test I think the top 3 are fine.

Creighton is the #1 team at this point end of story. They are ranked nationally in both polls and have played fantastic bball.

UNI and Wichita State are #2a and #2b at this point. Chop em' how you want, at this point I don't really care; things will shake out when conference play begins.

If all 3 win the top 3 will stay the same next week. As impressive as Ohio is, and their accompanying RPI boost, they won’t be a sexy enough name to move the needle.

Creighton is the #1 team at this point because everyone THOUGHT they would be and they haven't done much to disprove that, other than losing their one and really only one good matchup thus far. I'm fine with that. At least acknowledge it though. Don't bring up stupid things like "eyeballs" and "name opponents". Fact is, if you've watched our team play, I think they'd actually pass anyone's eyeball test right now too, plus, we've played just as much, if not more "name opponents" than Creighton has.

Creighton:
opponents by rpi: 29, 53, 94, 136, 155, 191, 314, 318 (their next two opponents by the way, rounding out their non-conf schedule are 182 and 315)

*Their only loss came to their best opponent (St. Joes 29).

UNI:
opponents by rpi: 1, 40, 59, 92, 107, 124, 126, 191, 199, 200 (our next opponent - that counts - is 22)

*Our only loss came to our best opponent (St. Marys 1)

I understand that basing all this off of RPI this early, could be argued as silly, but RPI does give us a decent understanding of strength of schedule and strength of team.

I know Creighton is a good team. Maybe the best in the conference. All I'm trying to illustrate is why I HATE preseason talk and preseason rankings. In my opinion, NO RANKINGS should ever come out until after a week or two into the season. Creighton will play 9 non-conf games and 1/3 of them are against teams with 300+ RPIs currently. 2 more are against teams with RPIs greater than 180!

I know, this is boarderline silly. And I know we have to win games that count once conference play starts, making all this moot. But I'm having fun digging into these numbers and they do in fact, support what a great start to the season this has been for the Panthers!

[95UNIGRAD]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

Don't worry guys - if we keep playing like we are now (and we'll only get better as the year goes on), we'll be getting all this love next year. Remember, only Johnny leaves next year.

[porkchop]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

Don't bring up stupid things like "eyeballs" and "name opponents". Fact is, if you've watched our team play, I think they'd actually pass anyone's eyeball test right now too, plus, we've played just as much, if not more "name opponents" than Creighton has.

Creighton:
*Their only loss came to their best opponent (St. Joes 29).

UNI:
*Our only loss came to our best opponent (St. Marys 1)

I've watched every game this season, and I agree that UNI also passed the eyeball test. Sure preseason expectations/rankings have helped Creighton, but they also have the best player in the MVC, who's playing at a very high level. They also have wins over 3 B1G Teams and San Diego State that really pop out at a quick glance; which is what these writers largely base their opinions on.

Sure UNI has beat more "name opponents" if you are looking at RPI, but these writers aren't doing that; right or wrong. Articles like this are looking at who you beat and what conference these teams play in and how bad your losses are; among other things. On that note UNI's loss is a good loss, however Saint Mary's is a paper tiger when it comes to RPI. Saint Mary's only has 4 games on their RPI. Their RPI is going to tank in the next couple of weeks when they play teams with RPI's of 253, 319, 342, 265, 144, 52, and 75 before their conference play begins.

I like your effort and stats, but RPI's this time of year, especially Saint Mary's, which you are so proud of, are just as flawed as these opinion pieces .
I’m not trying to diminish what the Panthers have done so far this year; just adding a different perspective on the stats.

I'm just as proud as the next guy of how our Panthers are playing right now ...... GO PANTHERS!!!!

[electricmayhem]

Re: Valley Power Rankings - December 12

You guys really have the best conversations in the entire league...

It has been a great start for the Panthers, one that wasn't expected. Jman - you are right - Creighton is ranked high because they were supposed to be good and they are. UNI doesn't get the benefit of the doubt yet, in the eyes of most.

What I'm trying to capture is a few things -

1. Trend -- how is the team playing of late
2. Head-to-head -- how the team would fare against its peers
3. Strength of schedule -- has the team been tested

UNI obviously has won eight in a row and is playing quite well. Their SOS has been strong, leading to the #4 RPI position. I just believe right now that Creighton would beat UNI, and a game against WSU would be a hell of a tight matchup. That was the deciding factor.

I appreciate the passion that the UNI fans have... let's keep this great start going and send two or three teams dancing!

Joe