Time to Expand the Tournament

[jman2004]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

Utah State also has a major advantage this week that you completely ignore. They get AN AUTOMATIC BID if they win their conference tournament. To do so, they wont have to beat a team with an RPI of under 80.

Providence needs a win over DePaul today, and probably a strong showing or a win over Louisville. If I were the Friars, I would rather take my chances winning 3 straight in the WAC.

Look at Siena. They had 4 chances to beat a top 50 team and failed all 4 times. They are dancing because they won 3 straight in their conference tourney, without even playing a top 50 team. BCS schools dont have that opportunity. I wonder if a team like ND would like that chance.

The system is just fine. You are right to say that BCS schools have many more opportunities to beat the best teams. But the small schools have A HUGE ADVANTAGE this week in their conference tourney.

I understand what you're saying, and yes, teams like Providence and ND would probably kill to play in a conference tournament like the MAAC right now. They're chances at an autobid would be much greater . . .

But that's besides the point. I think the NCAA tournament needs to be used more as a reward to teams that have had great seasons. Regardless of what conference they play in . . . Notre Dame, has not had a great season. They have had PLENTY of opportunities to play with the Big East and have shown that they are nothing more than mediocre. Why do they DESERVE another shot? Same with Providence . . .

Sure, Providence and Notre Dame could probably beat teams like Utah State and Siena on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean they have EARNED a spot in the tournament the same way Siena and Utah State have. There's a difference.

[jman2004]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I thought (and still think) TH was suggesting the field should be cut down dramatically, to include ONLY the conference champions. He was responding to a post that suggested cutting down the field.

Ohhh, gotcha. Sorry.

[Panther789]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I understand what you're saying, and yes, teams like Providence and ND would probably kill to play in a conference tournament like the MAAC right now. They're chances at an autobid would be much greater . . .

But that's besides the point. I think the NCAA tournament needs to be used more as a reward to teams that have had great seasons. Regardless of what conference they play in . . . Notre Dame, has not had a great season. They have had PLENTY of opportunities to play with the Big East and have shown that they are nothing more than mediocre. Why do they DESERVE another shot? Same with Providence . . .

Sure, Providence and Notre Dame could probably beat teams like Utah State and Siena on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean they have EARNED a spot in the tournament the same way Siena and Utah State have. There's a difference.

I would agree that ND hasnt earned it, and I dont think they should be in. But if we didn't have auto bids, Im not sure Siena earned it either. Same with Utah State if they get the auto bid. Not to mention UNI who is only in because of our auto bid.

All Im saying is, if we are going to harp and harp about not getting enough chances against the big boys being a disadvantage, its only fair to recognize that the auto bid in small conferences is a huge advantage.

See Radford, E. Tennessee State, Morehead State, etc.

[Kyle]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I agree. In an ideal world, conference champs would be in the real tournament and everyone else could play for some other feel-good championship.

This is the fairest solution, but I hope they never to it. St Louis would SUCK if they are playing a tournament simply for a big trophy. Attendance would drop like a rock.

[CincyPanther88]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

This is the fairest solution, but I hope they never to it. St Louis would SUCK if they are playing a tournament simply for a big trophy. Attendance would drop like a rock.

Conference tournaments would be redundant if the regular season champ got the auto-bid. That's why it's not going to change. I just think it's a shame that a team goes through the regular season proving it's the best team in the conference and then gets shut out of the NCAAs because another team got hot. You could say a team like ISU would have deserved to go if they had won on Sunday but if someone like MSU or SIU got some breaks and won the whole thing, you certainly can't say they deserved to go.

If you're going to expand the thing, then just let everyone in. Of course then the conference tournaments would still be irrelevant so that's probably not going to happen either.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

Conference tournaments would be redundant if the regular season champ got the auto-bid. That's why it's not going to change. I just think it's a shame that a team goes through the regular season proving it's the best team in the conference and then gets shut out of the NCAAs because another team got hot. You could say a team like ISU would have deserved to go if they had won on Sunday but if someone like MSU or SIU got some breaks and won the whole thing, you certainly can't say they deserved to go.

If you're going to expand the thing, then just let everyone in. Of course then the conference tournaments would still be irrelevant so that's probably not going to happen either.

With the conference tournaments....everyone is in.

[TH1974]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

This is the fairest solution, but I hope they never to it. St Louis would SUCK if they are playing a tournament simply for a big trophy. Attendance would drop like a rock.

It's never going to happen, obviously, but if it did, there would be no need for the conference tournaments. They'd just be done away with.

[CincyPanther88]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I wonder how much these conference tournaments actually make. I'm sure the ACC tournament makes big bucks but in conferences like the Valley, factoring in revenue (TV, attendance, merchandise, concessions) and expenses (hotels, arena rent, etc.) I wonder if they make any money at all.

[TheMacHouse]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

This is the best argument that anyone has made.

The Conference Tournament IS the beginning of the NCAA Tournament for every D1 program in the country. Some earn their way in by winning their Conference Tournament, others will be allowed in via at-large berth.

I still say that they need to add 7 teams, for a total of 72. They should have 4 play-in games. But don't make conference tournament champions play in those play-in games...make the last 8 at-large teams play each other for a chance to play-in to the #12 lines in the brackets.

That would be great. You could have all 4 play-in games in Dayton on Tuesday and then the 4 winners would go to their First Round sites to play the #5 seeds.

I'm not saying your idea is a bad idea but I almost wish they would just get rid on the play-in game. For one thing if they played all play-in games at one spot they would have to start around noon and teams wouldn't know about it until Sunday night and have to travel on Monday after most of those teams traveled home from conference tournaments. Then the winners would have to turn around and head to a site for their next game which might be far away and might be on Thursday.

I know the teams should just be happy to play in NCAA and not worry about travel. Imagine the fans of those teams trying to make travel arragements since I would guess most wouldn't go to the play-in game but maybe a first round game and only having a day or so to get to the site if their team wins.

If the NCAA thinks they need more money I would guess they would add 3more play-in games but think it would still be for the 16 seeds since those teams bring a smaller fan base than the bigger schools and fan travel and tickets bought would be less of an issue.

[JD720]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I agree that the conference tournaments allow everyone to get into the NCAA tournament, but techinically that is not 100% true. The Ivy league still doesn't have a tournament. Also, I'm not sure if all of the conferences invite everyone to their tournaments. The Big East didn't until this year. I think the Valley only added the play in round about a decade ago.

[Panther789]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

That would be great. You could have all 4 play-in games in Dayton on Tuesday and then the 4 winners would go to their First Round sites to play the #5 seeds.

Lets reward the #5 seeds instead of the #1 seeds.

[TH1974]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

Having 4 play-in games is where this tournament is headed before they would ever just double the field.

Well, obviously.

[northwest iowa panther]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

After 30 minutes of wrangling and arguing about mid majors being snubbed, Bobby Knight came on and guess what the first words out of his mouth were? "Put 128 in the tournament and everyone that has a chance to win a game will get in the tournament."

He did not say by expanding it would put teams in that would win the tournament but win a game. Doug Kotblieb and Dick Vitale were very much in favor of the mids getting more in the tourney.

It's not good that Creighton got left out of this tournament. It's time. Hey this could be us next year.

[JayJ79]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

Look at the history...they didn't go from 32 to 64. They went to 48 and then 64 (if I remember correctly).

* 1939–1950: eight teams
* 1951–1974: varied between sixteen teams and 25 teams.
* 1975–1978: 32 teams
* 1979: 40 teams
* 1980–1982: 48 teams
* 1983: 52 teams (four play-in games before the tournament)
* 1984: 53 teams (five play-in games before the tournament)
* 1985–2000: 64 teams
* 2001—present: 65 teams (with an "opening round" game to determine whether the 64th or 65th team plays in the first round)

[Panthers to the Bone]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

How about 96 teams in the NCAA.

Teams 1-32 get 1st round byes.
Teams 33-96 play with winners moving onto 2nd round, losers to the NIT.

The NCAA would give auto bids to the conference tourney champs AND the conference regular season champs. It would put more emphasis on the regular season, in addition to improving competitiveness in the NCAA's. The NIT already gives teams who win their conference championship and lose their tourney championship an NIT auto bid.

I'm not a big fan of this idea, but I think it could be a nice compromise.