Time to Expand the Tournament

[9YRPLAN]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

the NCAA tournament already includes every team. it starts with the first game of your conference tourney. any team that feels like they belong in the tourney, but yet still has to worry about being on the bubble, knows what they have to do: play their way off the bubble

otherwise, you might as well eliminate the conference tourneys and let everyone in the BIg Dance like high school. it would actually require less games than the conference tournaments, and it would render the regular season worthless.

[Newt99]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I don't think it's quite that simple. NC, OK, and UConn are EASY examples for you to mention.

What about Utah State? They're 27-4 and if they don't win the WAC tournament, they won't make the NCAA tournament. Did they not "take care of business"?

Fact is, teams like Wisconsin (and others like them), are allowed to lay a lot more logs than a team like Utah State, or Creighton, or St. Mary's, or us for that matter.

I agree wholeheartedly. All some garbage team like Penn State has to do is win their first round game in the Big 11 Tournament and people think they have "taken care of business." Utah State, Creighton, or similar teams slip one time at the end of the year and they are out. Somehow the slip doesn't affect the power conferences. Louisville lost by farking 33 to Notre Dame a few weeks ago, a team that won't even make the tourney, and Lunardi currently has them projected as a 1 seed.

In part, because they play a tougher schedule - and will play legitimate title contenders every single year.

The only solution, if there needs to be one (and I'm unconvinced there does), is that any team that beats you in the NCAA tournament give you a game the next year. That would force some mid-major/BCS match-ups, and as a bonus, if you beat a team in the tournament, they give you a home game.

That means up to 6 games for the Final Two, but a mutual opt-out could be worked in. Considering the exempt tournaments, the game restriction is meaningless as it is.

And why do they play tougher schedules? A large part of that is they refuse to play the mid-majors in non-conference at all, and certainly not in a home-and-home series. We get so excited around here when a team like Marquette, LSU, Auburn, or Cincinnati throws us a bone with a single regular season road game, which most of the time they only do so because of a hole in their schedule that they absolutely cannot fill any other way. What a joke that is.

Your solution, which the powerhouses would never agree to in a million years anyway, would actually make the situation worse. If your school misses the NCAA tournament one year, it would significantly hurt your scheduling and RPI the next year. While all the teams who made the tournament last year are busy padding their stats against each other, those who just missed the cut are left scheduling each other, leaving little chance for a big win to get the selection committee's attention.

[06panther10]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I think the NCAA needs to do something to force some of these bigger schools to play mid majors more in the non-conf. Most mid majors are forced to get those wins at the BCS school's home court or a nuetural court, and there is only a couple chances a year to get one of these wins and without one, the mid majors have no chance to get an at large.

[SteinPizza]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

Specifically, Utah State's SOS (according to Sagarin) is 173 - in the bottom half of all teams. Wisconsin's SOS is 9th.

This stat tells it all. If a team like Utah State can't win their conference tourney, but yet still puts up lots of wins against soft competition...they shouldn't complain about being left out.

[Trapped in California]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

Most mid majors are forced to get those wins at the BCS school's home court or a nuetural court, and there is only a couple chances a year to get one of these wins and without one, the mid majors have no chance to get an at large.

How about this - we offer someone like Michigan, Louisville, or Duke a 3 for 1 in BB. The cost to travel would not be that much if you are planning ahead. Advantage to recruiting that you are telling recruits that they get to play ______ for the next four years. Your SOS likely goes up even if you lose, as long as it is not by 50 points.

Schedule the games away - home - away & away so there is an incentive to complete the deal for both sides. Then UNI can schedule a pay day and jack up the price. Do it mid week for that matter. If you can't sell 7,000 tickets @ $40.00 (or more) for Duke or Michigan whenever, you never will. If there is more demand, move it back to the UNIDOME and sell the nose bleed seat for $5-10 each, as it is found money. If not, then you have your answer what it will take to sell out the MAC.

Will it ever happen - only if Dannen hires Lawrence Taylor to send Coach K a pregame Gift Basket of hookers with cameras. But in order to get ahead, you have to be willing to play anyone, anywhere, anytime. If it were easy WSU would have already done it.

[06panther10]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

How about this - we offer someone like Michigan, Louisville, or Duke a 3 for 1 in BB. The cost to travel would not be that much if you are planning ahead. Advantage to recruiting that you are telling recruits that they get to play ______ for the next four years. Your SOS likely goes up even if you lose, as long as it is not by 50 points.

Schedule the games away - home - away & away so there is an incentive to complete the deal for both sides. Then UNI can schedule a pay day and jack up the price. Do it mid week for that matter. If you can't sell 7,000 tickets @ $40.00 (or more) for Duke or Michigan whenever, you never will. If there is more demand, move it back to the UNIDOME and sell the nose bleed seat for $5-10 each, as it is found money. If not, then you have your answer what it will take to sell out the MAC.

Will it ever happen - only if Dannen hires Lawrence Taylor to send Coach K a pregame Gift Basket of hookers with cameras. But in order to get ahead, you have to be willing to play anyone, anywhere, anytime. If it were easy WSU would have already done it.

Ha. Good post, especially the WSU part.

But my point is that I don't think the mid-majors should have to have a 3-1 deal. I think we should be able to get home and home series more often. The NCAA committee always talks about schedule strength, but the mid majors always have to travel to play the tougher teams, and doing so is the only way we can boos tour SOS.

[UNIChippewa]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

Getting to the number of teams in the NCAA tournament, I don't feel it is so broken that it needs to be expanded to 128 or even 96 teams. I agree with others that 68 teams could be a good fix, with the last four being those BCS and mid-major "bubble" teams competing to be the 12 seeds in each region. It would be fun to see Arizona vs. Creighton and St. Mary's vs. Florida in those types of games.

My only beef with the current process is based on case-by-case, or team-by-team. A couple of teams get left out each year that I think are deserving, and a couple get in that I think aren't deserving, and that changes season to season.

[DWadle1983]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I disagree. What's the lowest seed to win a title..9? 10 or 11, if that.

For half the field, the tournament birth is the point, and there is no legitimate shot at a title.

That being said, I strongly advocate against expansion. Play well enough to remove doubt and you aren't in Creighton's place. With the conference tournament system, everyone (save the Ivy League) has a chance to play their way in.

It was Villanova in 1985. I thought they were a 10 or 11, but when I went to look them up on Wikipedia it says 8th seed, and notes they are they lowest seeded team to win.

[northwest iowa panther]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

Sometimes we think since we are Division I we should be thought of as on an equal footing with the major conference schools--we are not. Our arena is smaller, our recruiting budget is smaller, our overall budget is smaller, our players have fewer "stars" after their names. The major conference schools really owe us nothing other than an opportunity now and then to play them on their terms. As long as the big boys have the upper hand, we will always be competing for the "leftovers", the 10-15 seeds, the extra at large bids on down years for the major conferences, the rare cinderella run in the NCAA tournament.

I honestly believe that expanding the tournament is on the horizon because of the economy and with that the "big boys" will have to share their pot of gold. This will allow for more opportunities that we now have no right to until we build bigger, spend more and recruit more "stars" which is not going to happen.

[Panther789]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

If it's just about playing a better schedule, then all mid-majors should just join a Super Conference like the Big East or Atlantic 10 or the Big Ten and Big 12...right? That way we can guarantee that we'll have some big name teams on our schedule.

I hold firm that Utah State deserves an at-large much more than Providence (or whatever mediocre BCS conference team you want to talk about). It doesn't matter that Providence has some 'big wins' because they've had more than ample opportunties vs. 'top' teams. If you have 12 conference games vs. teams in the RPI top 50...you're going to win some of them. Does that make Providence a better team than Utah State? No! It means they had more opportunities against 'big time' competition...and that's ONLY because they happen to be a member of a certain conference. Look at their non-conference schedule and see who they beat/lost to.

That's why expansion is a good idea. Then both of those teams get into the NCAA's and perhaps could even play each other. It adds to the competition level and gives the little guy who can't load up their non-conference schedule with BCS schools a chance.

Utah State also has a major advantage this week that you completely ignore. They get AN AUTOMATIC BID if they win their conference tournament. To do so, they wont have to beat a team with an RPI of under 80.

Providence needs a win over DePaul today, and probably a strong showing or a win over Louisville. If I were the Friars, I would rather take my chances winning 3 straight in the WAC.

Look at Siena. They had 4 chances to beat a top 50 team and failed all 4 times. They are dancing because they won 3 straight in their conference tourney, without even playing a top 50 team. BCS schools dont have that opportunity. I wonder if a team like ND would like that chance.

The system is just fine. You are right to say that BCS schools have many more opportunities to beat the best teams. But the small schools have A HUGE ADVANTAGE this week in their conference tourney.

[CincyPanther88]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I think Knight's a smart guy and he makes good points. However, in an ideal world, the tournament should be contracted, not expanded. Let's face it, only about 10-15 teams have a shot at the championship anyway. If they really want to let the best teams into the tournament, they should do away with the rule that the conference tournament champs are the automatic bid from that conference. The regular season winner is the team that has proved it over the entire season and not the one that got hot for 3 days. But that will never happen becasue the conference tournaments are a cash cow. Expanding the tournament is just going to get more BCS conference teams in there that have as much of a shot at winning it all as the 16 seed does.

[TH1974]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I think Knight's a smart guy and he makes good points. However, in an ideal world, the tournament should be contracted, not expanded. Let's face it, only about 10-15 teams have a shot at the championship anyway. If they really want to let the best teams into the tournament, they should do away with the rule that the conference tournament champs are the automatic bid from that conference. The regular season winner is the team that has proved it over the entire season and not the one that got hot for 3 days.

I agree. In an ideal world, conference champs would be in the real tournament and everyone else could play for some other feel-good championship.

[Panther789]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

I agree. In an ideal world, conference champs would be in the real tournament and everyone else could play for some other feel-good championship.

That's a terrible idea.

[jman2004]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

That's a terrible idea.

Why? UNI and Creighton dominated the Valley regular season this year. What if Wichita State would've gotten hot for three days in St. Louis and upset the pack? Do they really DESERVE a tourney bid any more than UNI or Creighton?

I don't think anyone is actually saying that the conference tournaments will be done away with, I think everyone is just saying that hypothetically, the regular season champion of conferences is the team that has consistently played the best all season long, not just over the course of a few days.

[Panther789]

Re: Time to Expand the Tournament

Why? UNI and Creighton dominated the Valley regular season this year. What if Wichita State would've gotten hot for three days in St. Louis and upset the pack? Do they really DESERVE a tourney bid any more than UNI or Creighton?

I don't think anyone is actually saying that the conference tournaments will be done away with, I think everyone is just saying that hypothetically, the regular season champion of conferences is the team that has consistently played the best all season long, not just over the course of a few days.

I thought (and still think) TH was suggesting the field should be cut down dramatically, to include ONLY the conference champions. He was responding to a post that suggested cutting down the field.