Up Next: Wichita State

[Mudrafan]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

Bo is Jake'a new Johnny Moran.

this........

[06panther10]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

A decent effort, all things considered.

We continue to be an annoyingly different team on the road. Figuring out how to play the way we are capable of playing on the road is the biggest thing stopping this team from accomplishing anything.

Tuttle is simply over-matched against big and/or athletic teams. He needs help, and its sad that he is our only post player. We really need to throw Friedman in there for 3-5 minutes a game at a minimum just to get him experience and see what he can do.

We got crushed on the offensive boards, missed a million open threes again, and had some dumb road turnovers. Have to get better with those things, but its becoming apparent that we simply aren't a very good shooting team. If we are going to continue to ignore the results/statistics and insist on shooting 30 3's per game we are going to continue to lose games.

All that said, if the WSU team that showed up tonight is the same team that we get in CF next month, we will win that game at home.

[UNIdad]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

WSU is beatable in a different environment and with different refs.

We had what might be just about the best chance to beat WSU at home this year. Playing early in the conference season, before their students are back, and got out to a quick lead.

[Kyle]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

A decent effort, all things considered.

We continue to be an annoyingly different team on the road. Figuring out how to play the way we are capable of playing on the road is the biggest thing stopping this team from accomplishing anything.

Tuttle is simply over-matched against big and/or athletic teams. He needs help, and its sad that he is our only post player. We really need to throw Friedman in there for 3-5 minutes a game at a minimum just to get him experience and see what he can do.

We got crushed on the offensive boards, missed a million open threes again, and had some dumb road turnovers. Have to get better with those things, but its becoming apparent that we simply aren't a very good shooting team. If we are going to continue to ignore the results/statistics and insist on shooting 30 3's per game we are going to continue to lose games.

All that said, if the WSU team that showed up tonight is the same team that we get in CF next month, we will win that game at home.

Yep. Spot on analysis.

[Purrrrrfect]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

A decent effort, all things considered.

We continue to be an annoyingly different team on the road. Figuring out how to play the way we are capable of playing on the road is the biggest thing stopping this team from accomplishing anything.

Tuttle is simply over-matched against big and/or athletic teams. He needs help, and its sad that he is our only post player. We really need to throw Friedman in there for 3-5 minutes a game at a minimum just to get him experience and see what he can do.

We got crushed on the offensive boards, missed a million open threes again, and had some dumb road turnovers. Have to get better with those things, but its becoming apparent that we simply aren't a very good shooting team. If we are going to continue to ignore the results/statistics and insist on shooting 30 3's per game we are going to continue to lose games.

All that said, if the WSU team that showed up tonight is the same team that we get in CF next month, we will win that game at home.

actually if you look at the box score...they were equally as bad on 3s, they only outrebounded us by 3 (40-43) including only 1 extra offensive rebound. So again evenly matched. The problem for us was turnovers and we missed 6 free throws (10-16...and 3 of them were the front end of 1 and 1s...which you take away another 3 free throw opps. to kinda make it 10-19 in that since). 9 points there and one three shy of what they had...12 points there and you got a game. It truly was an evenly matched game...and yes i watched it (twice!). Just mistakes and misses galore at the wrong time.

We'll get em with a little more ease in CF.

[panther1]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

actually if you look at the box score...they were equally as bad on 3s, they only outrebounded us by 3 (40-43) including only 1 extra offensive rebound. So again evenly matched. The problem for us was turnovers and we missed 6 free throws (10-16...and 3 of them were the front end of 1 and 1s...which you take away another 3 free throw opps. to kinda make it 10-19 in that since). 9 points there and one three shy of what they had...12 points there and you got a game. It truly was an evenly matched game...and yes i watched it (twice!). Just mistakes and misses galore at the wrong time.

We'll get em with a little more ease in CF.

No we won't. Unless we have a 7 footer hiding on an intramural team that can play, Wichita will beat us by double digits in CF.

[UNIdad]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

No we won't. Unless we have a 7 footer hiding on an intramural team that can play, Wichita will beat us by double digits in CF.

We started hot, ended cold, but showed that we are capable of playing with them if we play a complete game and eliminate the cold streaks. Can't wait for the game in CF.

[mikeshox]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

VanVleet is a nice player, but Armstead was the heart and soul of the Final Four squad.

Yes, Armstead was the heart and soul of the Final Four squad. However, Fred Van Vleet is the heart and soul of this team just as much as Malcolm was last March. Fred is probably as strong a team leader as I have ever witnessed in the 55 years I've been following WSU Basketball.

And let's consider some of the numbers:

Assists per game: Armstead 4.0 - Van Vleet 5.1

Assist per Turnover ratio: Armstead 1.76:1 - Van Vleet 4.28:1

Turnovers per game: Armstead 2.54 - Van Vleet 1.2

Steals per game: Armstead 1.95 - Van Vleet 1.87

I'll mention here that Malcolm set an all time single season steals record for the Shockers last year. He also was known for gambling often for steals and while that lead to a lot of steals, his failed gambles also lead to a lot of wide open shots for the opponent. Fred is a far better on-ball defender than Malcolm was and yet is running very close to Malcolm in steals per game.

Points per game: Armstead 10.7 - Van Vleet 12.4

FG %: Armstead 39.4 - Van Vleet 49.6

3 Pt %: Armstead 34.5 - Van Vleet 47.2

FT %: Armstead 80.3 - Van Vleet 87.0

All this being said, you would expect Fred's numbers to possibly diminish some now because the Valley knows him better than the non-conference foes. However, I am satisfied that when the season is finished, Fred's numbers will be consistently better in his sophomore season that Malcolm's were in his senior season.

Please do not think that I don't appreciate Malcolm Armstead. He was a magnificent players during his short time at WSU and I was a big time supporter of his play. He started the season pretty well, had an absolutely horrible stretch mid-way through the conference season which was when the Shockers lost nearly all of their conference games. He played well in St. Louis, but Cleanthony Early was battling illness there and played poorly. Then, Malcolm was great in the NCAA Tournament. Fred, as Malcolm's understudy was very consistent all year and really came into his own during the NCAA. Fred will tell anybody who will listen how much he appreciates the help Malcolm gave him last year and how much of a mentor he was. The fact is though that after watching dozens of wonderful point guards at WSU since the late '50s, I truly believe Fred Van Vleet is the best PG I've ever seen with the Shockers. And I truly look forward to watching him for another 2 1/2 years.

Then, his running partner, Ron Baker, is another tremendous player. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, Ron is battling an ankle sprain and has been for a number of games. It has really affected him and only the fact that he is such a mentally tough young man has him playing. His shooting has been way off during his injury, but his floor game and defense keeps him in as the Shockers are much better with him playing hurt than they would be with anyone else playing healthy. Ron's shooting percentages have dropped dramatically since his injury, but he's still shooting 44.7% from the field, 37% from 3, down from about 45% just before the injury and 84.4% from the line. He has 55 Assists and 22 TO's for a 2.5:1 ratio. He's averaging 3.9 Rebounds from his guard position and is tied for the team lead in blocked shots.

For the rest of the season, no, I do not expect a sweep of the Valley. There are too many tough teams. Indiana State will always scare me as long as Jake Odum is there, and it seems that he's been there for at least 8 years. Your team scares me to death. Deon Mitchell was really good yesterday and has really improved since he came into the league. Seth Tuttle had a really tough time yesterday, but he has often been much better than that and he always makes me nervous. Bohannon, after his 2 early 3's did nothing yesterday, but who knows when he might break out for a big game? Washpun is extremely athletic and has a chance to be a very good player as he learns Ben Jacobson's system. Quite often, it takes a while to really "get it". I really liked the way Jeremy Morgan played. He got in foul trouble early and was thus limited to only 13 minutes, but played very hard during his floor time. Buss also played only 17 minutes, but did some nice things. Yes, UNI always scares me. Your Panthers have given the Shockers fits forever.

Good luck.

[BCPanther]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

Give me VanVleet over Armstead every single time...

[Panther4life12]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

I think we need to stop playing Bohannon so much. If he would have hit half of the wide open threes he took it would have been a totally different game. Morgan is playing a hell of a lot better than he is.

[panther-state]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

Give me VanVleet over Armstead every single time...

No kidding. Give me VanVleet over just about any PG in recent Valley memory. Even Odum.

[orangetennis]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

time for an Evansville thread...

[williebat]

We started hot, ended cold, but showed that we are capable of playing with them if we play a complete game and eliminate the cold streaks. Can't wait for the game in CF.

Agree. If we make our free throws and hit a couple more threes we are in that game. We were not out matched. Then again we did lose handily.

[northwest iowa panther]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

Yes, Armstead was the heart and soul of the Final Four squad. However, Fred Van Vleet is the heart and soul of this team just as much as Malcolm was last March. Fred is probably as strong a team leader as I have ever witnessed in the 55 years I've been following WSU Basketball.

And let's consider some of the numbers:

Assists per game: Armstead 4.0 - Van Vleet 5.1

Assist per Turnover ratio: Armstead 1.76:1 - Van Vleet 4.28:1

Turnovers per game: Armstead 2.54 - Van Vleet 1.2

Steals per game: Armstead 1.95 - Van Vleet 1.87

I'll mention here that Malcolm set an all time single season steals record for the Shockers last year. He also was known for gambling often for steals and while that lead to a lot of steals, his failed gambles also lead to a lot of wide open shots for the opponent. Fred is a far better on-ball defender than Malcolm was and yet is running very close to Malcolm in steals per game.

Points per game: Armstead 10.7 - Van Vleet 12.4

FG %: Armstead 39.4 - Van Vleet 49.6

3 Pt %: Armstead 34.5 - Van Vleet 47.2

FT %: Armstead 80.3 - Van Vleet 87.0

All this being said, you would expect Fred's numbers to possibly diminish some now because the Valley knows him better than the non-conference foes. However, I am satisfied that when the season is finished, Fred's numbers will be consistently better in his sophomore season that Malcolm's were in his senior season.

Please do not think that I don't appreciate Malcolm Armstead. He was a magnificent players during his short time at WSU and I was a big time supporter of his play. He started the season pretty well, had an absolutely horrible stretch mid-way through the conference season which was when the Shockers lost nearly all of their conference games. He played well in St. Louis, but Cleanthony Early was battling illness there and played poorly. Then, Malcolm was great in the NCAA Tournament. Fred, as Malcolm's understudy was very consistent all year and really came into his own during the NCAA. Fred will tell anybody who will listen how much he appreciates the help Malcolm gave him last year and how much of a mentor he was. The fact is though that after watching dozens of wonderful point guards at WSU since the late '50s, I truly believe Fred Van Vleet is the best PG I've ever seen with the Shockers. And I truly look forward to watching him for another 2 1/2 years.

Then, his running partner, Ron Baker, is another tremendous player. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, Ron is battling an ankle sprain and has been for a number of games. It has really affected him and only the fact that he is such a mentally tough young man has him playing. His shooting has been way off during his injury, but his floor game and defense keeps him in as the Shockers are much better with him playing hurt than they would be with anyone else playing healthy. Ron's shooting percentages have dropped dramatically since his injury, but he's still shooting 44.7% from the field, 37% from 3, down from about 45% just before the injury and 84.4% from the line. He has 55 Assists and 22 TO's for a 2.5:1 ratio. He's averaging 3.9 Rebounds from his guard position and is tied for the team lead in blocked shots.

For the rest of the season, no, I do not expect a sweep of the Valley. There are too many tough teams. Indiana State will always scare me as long as Jake Odum is there, and it seems that he's been there for at least 8 years. Your team scares me to death. Deon Mitchell was really good yesterday and has really improved since he came into the league. Seth Tuttle had a really tough time yesterday, but he has often been much better than that and he always makes me nervous. Bohannon, after his 2 early 3's did nothing yesterday, but who knows when he might break out for a big game? Washpun is extremely athletic and has a chance to be a very good player as he learns Ben Jacobson's system. Quite often, it takes a while to really "get it". I really liked the way Jeremy Morgan played. He got in foul trouble early and was thus limited to only 13 minutes, but played very hard during his floor time. Buss also played only 17 minutes, but did some nice things. Yes, UNI always scares me. Your Panthers have given the Shockers fits forever.

Good luck.

Hmmm! Somebody that watched the same game we did and very nicely gave his point of view. Good post.

[95UNIGRAD]

Re: Up Next: Wichita State

Fans of opposing teams that can come here and give a reasoned analysis of the game, both before and after, are worth their weight in gold. Thanks, mikeshox.