Jake, Jake, Jake...

[Panthers Win!!]

You are entitled to your opinion of course Madcat but labeling the opinion of those that question the officiating as "REDICULOUS" is a bit of hyperbole. As you said, the notion that blame can be placed on one player or coach is what's silly. One break here or there and we could have overcome what I believe was an inconsistently officiated game. I'm not blaming refs for the loss but IMO if one feels the need to try to play the finger pointing game the lack of officiating consistency is just as easy to point out as a cause as anything else that's been mentioned. The lack of consistency made it difficult to gauge whether many things were a foul. As you said, the pivotal moment was when Brooks picked up his fourth foul and had to sit. One foul he got was for using his off arm to shield against the defender, something that was being done TO HIM all night as well. As well, many of the blocks/charges could have gone either way and personally I think they were inconsistently called. I'm not going to go through every play to justify my opinion but I guess when many other school's fans make the same comments on ValleyTalk there must be some objective support for the the opinion you don't share.

Of course I presume you agree that if nothing was said other than "that's not a foul" the technical shouldn't have been called. How is that not the refs fault? Why can't we blame the refs if we can blame players or coaches?

It's easy to be high and mighty and preach what we all learned in team sports as kids that it's wrong to blame officials for your own poor play. The team could have played better but they shouldn't have to overcome what seems to many MVC fans as breaks SIU gets particularly on it's home court. SIU reminds me a lot of the old Piston teams. Foul with impunity because the officials won't call everything, especially in Carbondale.

[UNI MadCat]

Right on! I guess I should have made my point a little clearer. If people truly think the T cost us the game, then we can say that T. Brown missing that 3 at the end cost us the game, and Stout not getting the ball out of his hands fast enough, or the team only shooting 70% for threeland etc. Bottom line, the T conversation is pointless!

Beware: there is some sarcasm in this post.

Sorry about that Deke but I think you will notice I'm in agreement with you regardless.

When I lay in bed last night tossing in turning about the "what ifs" of the game and its overall ramifications, never once did I think it was the "T" and I'm glad other people aren't thinking that either.

Does anyone remember the conclusion of the game @ SIU last year?? I just had this eerily similar feeling when we rushed down the court. We ended up getting a better shot off but I just kept thinking, "Please, give us this one... just once!!"

Oh well... onto Drake!!

[BCPanther]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am kind of encouraged after having a while to digest the loss.

We had 24 turnovers and did not play well at all and only lost by 2 at SIU. Remember they have only lost 6 games this DECADE in that building. It could have easily been a blowout, but it wasn't.

We went 6-3 in the first half. If we go 6-3 in the second half we will be the 2 or 3 seed in St. Louis with an outside shot at being in a mega-tie for first. But more importantly at 12-6 in the Valley we can punch our ticket for the dance again...

[UNI MadCat]

Bottom line Panthers Win!! -- does it really surprise you that other schools complaing about the perennial conference champs??? Other schools' fans complain about SIU because of 5 things -- 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 & 2006.

I just love this fascination that people have about that somehow, someway the refs favor SIU. Really?? Why don't you talk to our own AD to see if he thinks SIU or any team in general gets preferential treatment from the refs? Seems like he'd have some inside knowledge as to how this whole reffing thing works.

Lets not forget that these guys are judged on their accuracy and have their own similar little "season" to make the "big dance" as a ref -- a pretty high honor. I highly doubt that they would eschew that just to let SIU win another game.

Lets call this what it is -- a lot of people who are extremely jealous of SIU's success.

Its no secret that I cheer wholeheartedly for two teams -- UNI and Wisconsin. What is amazing to me is the amount of other Big10 schools' fans that now claim that its UW who gets all the calls and that's the reason why they win. Funny... no one seemed to care when they weren't #2 in the country but now all of a sudden all these theories come up.

Bottom line --- winning breeds jealousy.

[UNI MadCat]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am kind of encouraged after having a while to digest the loss.

We had 24 turnovers and did not play well at all and only lost by 2 at SIU. Remember they have only lost 6 games this DECADE in that building. It could have easily been a blowout, but it wasn't.

We went 6-3 in the first half. If we go 6-3 in the second half we will be the 2 or 3 seed in St. Louis with an outside shot at being in a mega-tie for first. But more importantly at 12-6 in the Valley we can punch our ticket for the dance again...

Agreed BC. I think ideally we want to find a way to go 13-5 but 12-6 and a quarterfinal win in StL would likely do it as well, IMO.

[jman2004]

The most pivotal moment of the game was when Brooks had to sit. He left with us in the lead and came back with us down 5-7. Kwazdo is going to be a HECKUVA player and the confidence, athleticism and energy he displayed was great... but a key little turning point was his ill-advised offbalance 3-pointer relatively early in the shot clock. SIU came right back down the court and scored... it was HUGE. You can't fault KA for it because we need that kind of take charge attitude from the younger guys as well but, in the future, he'll learn that this is not the type of shot we need at that particular juncture. He'll see that when we run the offensive set, we're golden. What was odd about the 24 TOs is that when we ran the set to completion, there were some beautiful plays.

Definately agree with you on this. Brooks was handling Mullins ball pressure the best he could. Pretty darn good if you ask me. Kwadzo is pretty young and I really like him as a player. His ball handling isn't quite there yet (obviously after watching last night) and I'm glad you recognize that he will be a "HECKUVA" player.

However, to explain what I think he was doing during that turning point last night, was getting Mullins to back off somewhat. Mullins was riding him whenever he came in the game, that was obvious. Kwadzo needed some breathing room. He had just hit a three in a similar fashion, he knew Brooks was going to be on the bench a while in foul trouble, so he knew he was going to need to be able to breathe going down the court. I think, that he thought if he could nail another three in Mullins face, he could get him to back off a tad. I'm not saying it was a smart shot, but that's immediately what I thought when he shot it.

And about blaming the officials, I realize too we all do it as fans, I started a thread about the poor officiating in McLoed recently, but last night's game was ridiculous. The "blown" whistle at the end of the game and the same thing happening a few years ago is all just a great example. SIU has a great winning tradition in this conference, of course I'm jealous of that. But that doesn't mean me or anyone else is making up the fact that officials don't call near enough fouls on them while they play there. Talk to any other fans of MVC teams and they'll say the exact same thing. There's a reason they're untouchable at home.

What the officials need to do to be fair, is call that stuff early and get them to play good defense. SIU plays defense too out of control and to me, that doesn't necessarily equal "good" defense. It equals "dirty" defense. Mullins and Tatum move their feet WAY too much. When Brooks or Kwadzo or Josten would manage to get by one of them last night or gain a step on them, SIU's way of getting back in the play is to grab them and hand check them to slow them down. I'm not being a whiny UNI fan. That's just the truth. It's a foul. It's dirty defense and I'm tired of people saying how awesome at defense they are. Josten is a great defender because he moves his feet well and he can stay with a player. From all I could tell, the only way Mullins and Tatum can stay with a player is because they're grabbing them trying to keep up 90% of the time.

I agree, officiating should not determine the outcome of the game. But come on! Panthers Win!!! said it best. It's getting ridiculous that the same officials that call fouls away from SIU, decide not to call them at SIU. No one could've watched that game last night and thought otherwise. It's not necessarily blaming the officiating. It's just stating the obvious. They were letting a lot of stuff go last night, when they could've called it early and helped dictate a much cleaner game.

And about everyone complaining about our 24 TOs, if SIU wouldn't have been playing as dirty as they were, I guaranteen you we wouldn't have those TOs. It doesn't mean they were all lazy passes (some were). It's hard to pass a basketball with a player or two hanging on your forearms.

[jman2004]

And I don't know about being "golden" when running the offense. It seems to me that lately, Grant and Eric have been getting the ball awfully high in the post because our offense is being run nearly back to halfcourt. I don't like it. Brooks and Kwadzo can't let that happen cut half court in half (if that makes any sense) and give the ball to Grant and Eric deeper in the post.

[UNIAlum95]

Agreed BC. I think ideally we want to find a way to go 13-5 but 12-6 and a quarterfinal win in StL would likely do it as well, IMO.

Agreed. We are still in great shape with a lot of winnable games left.

Here's what's left and what we need to do down the stretch:

1/27 @ Drake - Need a win. Can't lose to another bottom team. Moves us to 7-3.
1/30 WSU - Win and protect the home floor. This also probably ends WSUs season. Now 8-3
2/3 @ Evansville - Can't fall into the trap that MSU did at EU. A win here and we are 9-3.
2/5 @ Indiana St - Second game in three days. Must win to push InSU back down the ladder - Now 10-3
2/8 Drake - Second game with DU in 2 weeks. and the 4th game in 10 days. Win and we move to 11-3
2/10 MSU - 5th game in 12 days. Very rough stretch here and the last home game for 14 days. Must win to go to 12-3
2/13 @ CU - Can afford to drop this game (although I would like nothing better than to win here for a little Funk payback). Odds say we lose and move to 12-4
2/17 @ BB - Nonconference but yet another road game. Let's hope it is not too far away and we get a chance to rest some regulars. I don't know how much a win here really helps our NCAA chances. It really seems like a wash at this point.
2/20 @ Bradley - We have about as much success with BU as we do at SIU and CU so a win will be difficult. However, a win here and we can be making travel plans to the Dance cause we will have 22 wins overall even if we drop the bracket buster game. Since winning 8 of 9 doesn't seem all that likely we are probably sitting at 12-5 here.
2/24 Illinois State - UNI will win the last game of the season at home to move to 13-5.

[merkpanthers]

OK, I just really needed the night to calm down from this game before I posted anything here. Our turnovers were what cost us this game. There is no doubt about it, PERIOD. Coach Jake getting the T was not helpful, but we did have a little spark after that, but it wasn't enough to finish the game. This was a game where we really needed Brooks out on the floor and when he picked up his 4th foul I knew we were in trouble. I like Kwazdo, but I think that we really needed Josten to run the point for us and have Viet and Brown at the wings when we were playing in such a hostile environment. Stout missing those two FT was a big turning point as well. We need to make all of those shots with the clock stopped and we didn't. There were only a couple of calls that are stuck in my head. They had been calling mostly charges and a few blocks all night and the only time they didn't call one underneath was on a Falker put back when he was completely out of control and I think this gave SIU a 5 point lead. The refs were not consistent there. And then there was and over the back after Coleman got the board of Brown's three, but at the end of the game you have to let them play I guess. This one is a tough one to swallow, but the turnovers killed us and we were still in this one to the very end. Get rested and play Panthers basketball against Drake on Saturday. Go Panthers!!!

[Durf73]

SIU has a great defensive strategy - if all five players are basically fouling (pressure D) all the time the ref's can't call them all, eventually they miss some & eventually they let some stuff go, but usually only on one end of the court. In the meantime their opponent turns the ball over way to much & that simply kills them, plus they pressure your offense into starting in places they are not use to starting. This makes them especially tough to play at home.

The bottom line is TURN OVERS KILL YOUR GAME, YOUR GAME PLAN, & YOUR HOPES FOR A VICTORY. Pressure defense not only causes TO's it also wears you team down so you make even more mistakes like bad passes or missed free throws .

I respect pressure defensive teams, but I sure hate to coach against them, especially on the road. Tony D, yes our Tony D made this work oh so well when he was the coach at Montezuma. It was almost impossible to get a team prepared for the pressure & the stress !

[jman2004]

I don't know about Josten running the point. I think I would've let Kwadzo (for lack of other choices) and I think the reason Viet and Koch saw limited playing time was because I thought it was very obvious that with their lack of ball handling skills, they were way out of their league in this type of environment. Jake saw that too and sat them the rest of the game.

I think normally he would've done the same with Kwadzo, but he was out of options at that point with Brooks' cheap 4th.

[Khan4Cats]

I am not sure where to put this and I did not want to start another thread on officiating, etc. So let this be kind of my Dennis Green rant.

First, I am getting tired of the talk about how great SIU is on defense. It is what it is: grab and hold, rape and pillage. They are extremely quick if you try to move laterally and will grab, scratch and claw if you go past them.

What is not being proclaimed loudly enough is just how good a defensive team we are. We play great team defense, moving with players, hand in thier face on shots, force teams to go to option B, etc. In fact I will go so far as to say I believe we are a better defense team than Southern. We hold opponents to a lower shooting percentage, we outrebound. We may get a lot of steals, but we do force turnovers.

What we can take from Southern is that they do bring their defensive intensity every game. We have seen that when our team cranks up the D, we can beat anybody, and I do mean anybody.

This game we got beat because we made mistakes on offense and had too many turnovers, the T did not cost us anymore than a whole slew of things but the TO's were the big factor. What caused them is what needs to be addressed. Whatever the reasons for them, this team needs to learn to overcome those because we can't have a game like that (TO's) the rest of the year.

[unigriff]

Watching last nites game on TV reminded me of my Sophomore game at CF against City High just hours before. My soph team won 61-60 in OT. The interesting fact is 1. shot 12-21 from FT line..(the team only averages around 50+% anyway) 21 Turnovers and didn't score a basket the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter and the entire overtime. 4 pts in 7 minutes, all from the Line and all in the OT.

All us coaches could say was: WOW, LUCKY. WOW.

You aren't or shouldn't win too many games win you have 21 TOs and basically don't score for an entire quarter.

I was in pretty high spirits when Stout got to the line to shoot 3. I had a feeling if he made them all, we'd push ahead and win by 2 or so. He missed those two and I knew it would go to OT or we'd lose it in the end. Ugly games, but the TOs killed us.

The bright side to last nites game was to see that it took SIU 7 minutes to start the game to ger their first bucket and the fans didn't sit down till they did. I laughed...7 minutes is a long time!...plus a TV timeout and a SIU timeout....thats prob. a good 10 minutes until they got to sit down!

[valleyalum]

I think you need to look at Kwadzo's conference stats. He has killed us and is not producing. He is a turnover machine and cannot shoot at all! Give Haak or Jones a chance, or let Josten run the point. Kwadzo is not very talented and we need to move on and build for next year.

[FerociousCat]

Give KA a break, he's a true freshman who will be a key cog of our team the next few years. I think Coach Jake probably knows a little better than you about the ability of KA.
Wearing #11, I think KA could turn out like Dale Turner.