Kicking Game and Special Teams

[jegbomb52]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

Okay, shut down Panthernation.

There is officially no reason to talk about panther sports any more. We are going to start a new site called "go panthers" and all you have to do is sign up and it will post your name on the site as a supporter. There is obviously no need to "question" coaches, athletes, administrators.

Having spoken with Coach Farley many times I think he would agree more than anybody that he often scratches his head about the psyche of kickers and punters and the best way to handle them.

[dustin86]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

POOCH KICK
Thats all I have to say

[clenz]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

POOCH KICK
Thats all I have to say

That still doesn't work if there isn't enough hang time. A pooch kick without hang time is worse than a full kick off without hang time.

[dustin86]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

a pooch kick with no hang time is a squib kick

[Cat80]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

As he should, starters in on coverage= 7-1 right now instead of 6-2. Un-fortunately, Coach Farley has not quite grasped the concept of treating kickers and punters like the "fragile" (don't rip on me) people they are. The kicking game in college football is so much different mentally than any other position. No other position on the field has as much negative pressure on it. If a QB starts a game 2-4 no one bats an eye. If a kicker goes 2-4 on field goals rip him out and find someone new. If a QB throws a ball over a receiver and it skips through the end zone its "no big deal", when a long snapper does it, it "costs them the game" (ala Pittsburgh on Sunday). Specialists are a different bread. It is important to instill confidence in a specialist. Not call them out in the media. There is nothing our kicker could have done to change the game at Youngstown. I really don't think people understand how much moving the kickoff line back five yards changed the game of football.

Sounds reasonable to me, especially the concept of negative pressure. In watching games I see very few kicks go into the end zone, and a lot of drives starting beyond the 30. I suppose if UNI wasn't having kick and coverage issues, the coach wouldn't be talking about it, would he?

[Tango Charlie]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

Last year Josh Mohoney and Tyler Epstein were the men. Absolutely blew up the blockers and the receivers. Epstein especially made some highlight film hits. Remember that hit at Western last yr ?

The move to the 30 has made a huge difference in kick coverage. Most kickoffs are now returned even from the end zone. Where the kick goes is more important than ever. The coverage team needs to know that the kicker is going to put it near the sideline that they are covering. Accuracy is super important.

Look for some personel changes Sat.

[jegbomb52]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

That still doesn't work if there isn't enough hang time. A pooch kick without hang time is worse than a full kick off without hang time.

All the while agreeing with you I do have one small argument with your point.

The difference with a short kick is that regardless of hang time you give your kick-off team less field to cover. Less time to be un-disciplined by getting out of their coverage lanes, you screw up the timing of the kick-off return team for the opposition, you have an "up-man" return the ball (usually a fullback or a tight end instead of a DB or WR), and you do not allow the other team to establish a "wedge" of blockers. Kicking it short regardless of hangtime has its SIGNIFICANT advantages.

[MnPantherFan]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

I doubt Coach Farley needs instruction from us about grasping any aspect of football.

I'm not sure about that. Seems to me he could use a few pointers about clock management.

[UNIstudent]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

All the while agreeing with you I do have one small argument with your point.

The difference with a short kick is that regardless of hang time you give your kick-off team less field to cover. Less time to be un-disciplined by getting out of their coverage lanes, you screw up the timing of the kick-off return team for the opposition, you have an "up-man" return the ball (usually a fullback or a tight end instead of a DB or WR), and you do not allow the other team to establish a "wedge" of blockers. Kicking it short regardless of hangtime has its SIGNIFICANT advantages.

Wrong. A short kick with hangtime will be fair caught at the 35-40 yard line. Even worse a short kick with no hangtime will still be returned for at least 10 yards, even if it is a FB or TE, still resulting in very good field position.

[jegbomb52]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

Wrong. A short kick with hangtime will be fair caught at the 35-40 yard line. Even worse a short kick with no hangtime will still be returned for at least 10 yards, even if it is a FB or TE, still resulting in very good field position.

Wrong? In what way did my post filled with facts give you the impression that I was wrong. Nothing I said was wrong, it was fact. You simply added your opinion to it, correct?

Dude, this is college, a pooch kick goes to the 20, not the 40. It also would get returned 10 yards, to the 30 or even 15 yards to the 35. Which is not "very good field position" IN MY OPINION. I believe what everyone wants here is to eliminate this as a scoring part of our opponents game. Avoiding giving them the ball in their territory is the problem, not arguing over whether or not they will have it on the 34 or 38 yard line.

It has been posted, using STATISTICS (a method a lot of people here waived bye bye to a long time ago) that the pooch kick is more EFFECTIVE giving oppenents more poor starting field position AS WELL AS lowering the chances of one being ran back.

Again, do not post that people are "wrong" when you have nothing to disagree with, nothing in my afformentioned (sp?) post can even be disagreed with, they were all facts, not my opinion. Prove me wrong, please.

[clenz]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

All the while agreeing with you I do have one small argument with your point.

The difference with a short kick is that regardless of hang time you give your kick-off team less field to cover. Less time to be un-disciplined by getting out of their coverage lanes, you screw up the timing of the kick-off return team for the opposition, you have an "up-man" return the ball (usually a fullback or a tight end instead of a DB or WR), and you do not allow the other team to establish a "wedge" of blockers. Kicking it short regardless of hangtime has its SIGNIFICANT advantages.

Wrong? In what way did my post filled with facts give you the impression that I was wrong. Nothing I said was wrong, it was fact. You simply added your opinion to it, correct?

Dude, this is college, a pooch kick goes to the 20, not the 40. It also would get returned 10 yards, to the 30 or even 15 yards to the 35. Which is not "very good field position" IN MY OPINION. I believe what everyone wants here is to eliminate this as a scoring part of our opponents game. Avoiding giving them the ball in their territory is the problem, not arguing over whether or not they will have it on the 34 or 38 yard line.

It has been posted, using STATISTICS (a method a lot of people here waived bye bye to a long time ago) that the pooch kick is more EFFECTIVE giving oppenents more poor starting field position AS WELL AS lowering the chances of one being ran back.

Again, do not post that people are "wrong" when you have nothing to disagree with, nothing in my afformentioned (sp?) post can even be disagreed with, they were all facts, not my opinion. Prove me wrong, please.

I hated the pooch kick, I still don't like it but that is another story...

I agree with jeg here. He, I believe it was him, posted stats showing that there is statically no difference in field position on the different kicks. I think the pooch kick does take that possibility of the them breaking the big return down some.

NDSU did something, almost, that I'm shocked a team hasn't tried yet. There were a couple times the deep man for NDSU would come up right behind the man who caught the pooch and run behind him, almost setting up a late pitch, which could be huge for either side if it worked out.

My think with the pooch is, if we pooch and it lands at the 25-30 and there isn't a lot of hang time on it it could still be brought back to the 40-45 if the capable TE or FB gets it.

[FantherPucker]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

Like all of you, I am really excited about the game this week. I am the only one daring enough to ask the question that is on everyone's minds: Who would win in a fist fight? Mark Farley or Mark Hendrickson?

I got Hendrickson with a KO in the third round.

[jegbomb52]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

Absolutely, keep in mind you didn't say "a capable tight end could run back the opening kickoff in a game we lose by 3.

Everyone that is arguing (not that you are arguing Clenz) for the pooch is only stating the negatives of the pooch, kicking deep has its negatives as well.

If we could kick it deep to the goal line and cover like rockstars and stop teams on the 20 yard line every time that would be great, duh.

Its the fact that our deep kicks right now are going to the 8 or 9 yard line. Keep in mind guys, Billy is still pretty young. He still has two years left AFTER this year.

[jegbomb52]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

Like all of you, I am really excited about the game this week. I am the only one daring enough to ask the question that is on everyone's minds: Who would win in a fist fight? Mark Farley or Mark Hendrickson?

I got Hendrickson with a KO in the third round.

what?

[clenz]

Re: Kicking Game and Special Teams

Absolutely, keep in mind you didn't say "a capable tight end could run back the opening kickoff in a game we lose by 3.

Everyone that is arguing (not that you are arguing Clenz) for the pooch is only stating the negatives of the pooch, kicking deep has its negatives as well.

If we could kick it deep to the goal line and cover like rockstars and stop teams on the 20 yard line every time that would be great, duh.

Its the fact that our deep kicks right now are going to the 8 or 9 yard line. Keep in mind guys, Billy is still pretty young. He still has two years left AFTER this year.

I completely agree with every said here, and what you have said about the pooch. I don't like it, but hat is my personal opinion, but it is working for the most part. So I will be ok with it.