With all the talk of The Valley being down I looked at some numbers

[Khan4Cats]

Re: With all the talk of The Valley being down I looked at some numbers

Anybody say "this isn't fair" and take their ball and go home.

Unless you have an actual solution that is reasonable given the make-up of the best teams in the country, it is hard to take your rants seriously.

No, you obviously don't have a problem with the system as is, other than maybe not enough BcS schools are represented. Maybe we should just include Digger, and Billy and Hubert on the committee. It's clear any suggestion I have made in regards to proportionality is being brushed off by you. No reason to keep arguing.

You like the system and are happy with whatever handouts schools like UNI can get from the have-alls. I think UNI and similar schools are getting screwed by the system and want a change. End of story.

[clenz]

Re: With all the talk of The Valley being down I looked at some numbers

If we want those "up" years to be the norm, then by definition this has to have been a "down" year.

The Valley badly needs teams to start making Sweet-16/Elite-8 runs and New York runs in the NIT.

I agree with this 110%, but until that happens I don't know if we can call this a down year after 2 seasons of really great ball. Was the George Mason's team, the year after they went to the final four, a down team? Compared to the last year, probably, but compared to the history of that program probably not. I don't know for sure, I haven't saw the numbers.

I want very badly for a finish of 8th RPI wise to be a horrible year for our conference. However, I don't think we are there as a conference yet.

[SteinPizza]

Re: With all the talk of The Valley being down I looked at some numbers

No, you obviously don't have a problem with the system as is, other than maybe not enough BcS schools are represented. Maybe we should just include Digger, and Billy and Hubert on the committee. It's clear any suggestion I have made in regards to proportionality is being brushed off by you. No reason to keep arguing.

You like the system and are happy with whatever handouts schools like UNI can get from the have-alls. I think UNI and similar schools are getting screwed by the system and want a change. End of story.

Proportionality??? To use your numbers, 40% of the committee was made up of BCS, 40% from mid-majors. How in the hell is that not fair? You can't have 80% or 90% of the committee made up of mid/small schools. Not realistic, not representative of revenue, not representative of success...name your reason.

So I ask you...how are UNI and "similar" schools getting screwed? You can certainly bring up some past examples (Missouri St.), but I would argue that the MVC was a one bid league this year due to no marquis wins. As a mid/small league, you MUST have marquis wins in order to get peoples' attention. No wins against the field, while not perfect, is another way to state that.

[Khan4Cats]

Re: With all the talk of The Valley being down I looked at some numbers

Proportionality??? To use your numbers, 40% of the committee was made up of BCS, 40% from mid-majors. How in the hell is that not fair? You can't have 80% or 90% of the committee made up of mid/small schools. Not realistic, not representative of revenue, not representative of success...name your reason.

So I ask you...how are UNI and "similar" schools getting screwed? You can certainly bring up some past examples (Missouri St.), but I would argue that the MVC was a one bid league this year due to no marquis wins. As a mid/small league, you MUST have marquis wins in order to get peoples' attention. No wins against the field, while not perfect, is another way to state that.

How are UNI and other small schools getting screwed? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ With every game played in the NCAA, a slice of that $6 billion CBS TV contract is distributed to each school and conference. More games = more money. More teams in means more games. It's all about the money.

40% representing 25% of the schools (20% of the conferences) is fair? BULLSHEEET.

Note that I was not arguing for Illinois State. I am arguing against the continually moving target that is always conveniently set to meet criteria to include BcS schools and exclude smaller schools. You say we need marquis wins. How the HE!!! do we get them if the schools we would get them against won't play us? Great argument.

Again, would Butler have been excluded from the field had they not won they're tournament? They didn't have a win against the field. So we include BcS schools for having wins against the field because they get 6 or more chances to play tourney qualifying schools IN their conferences and small schools have to pray that thy can correctly predict a couple of schools that will make the field a year before hand and then beat them. Of course that loss might just be a reason that that team may end up not making the field. Oh well, give that slot to a BcS school that can't even finish above .500 in conference play.

What will be the criteria next year? We know that RPI has been tossed aside, last ten is not as important, quality wins vs no bad losses got dropped in favor of beating teams in the field this year, so what will it be next year?

Truth is, the committee make-up would not be that big a deal if there were some consistent criteria that EVERYONE could understand and follow. But until there is, politics and horsetrading will still rule the process and good schools/conferences will be shut out.

[Panther789]

Re: With all the talk of The Valley being down I looked at some numbers

Again, would Butler have been excluded from the field had they not won they're tournament? They didn't have a win against the field. So we include BcS schools for having wins against the field because they get 6 or more chances to play tourney qualifying schools IN their conferences and small schools have to pray that thy can correctly predict a couple of schools that will make the field a year before hand and then beat them. Of course that loss might just be a reason that that team may end up not making the field. Oh well, give that slot to a BcS school that can't even finish above .500 in conference play.

.

First of all, if Butler hadn't won it's conference tourny, it would have beaten the team that did, and thus a team in the field. So this point, like many of your others, doesn't even hold up even a tiny bit of scrutiny.


If beating other tourney teams is important, and I believe that it is, you are correct in saying that it negatively affects smaller conference teams. It is nuetral on its face, but smaller teams dont get as many opportunities.


Another example of a rule that is nuetral on its face, but unfair when applied. Every conference gets an automatic bid. In this way, small conference teams have a HUGE advantage over the BCS schools. Many of the schools in the tournament this year, Mt. St. Marys, Coppin State, etc. would not even be close to the dance without the automatic bid. The only BCS school that you can say that about is Georgia (very few examples like this in the last few years). The automatic bid is much more valuable to a team like Coppin State, who would never have gotten in on merits alone this year, but has a realistic chance to win its tournament.

In short, small conference schools shouldnt have it both ways. If you took the Top 65 Rpi teams, regardless of conference, but didnt give automatic bids, the number of BCS schools in the dance would be very similar to what it is today.

[jman2004]

Re: With all the talk of The Valley being down I looked at some numbers

So we include BcS schools for having wins against the field because they get 6 or more chances to play tourney qualifying schools IN their conferences and small schools have to pray that thy can correctly predict a couple of schools that will make the field a year before hand and then beat them.

I don't agree with "everything" in your post, but this quote I pulled out is a very, very, very good point.

Something's gotta give eventually and personally, I think all mid-major conferences need to be given a little more respect on a whole.

[Panthers to the Bone]

Re: With all the talk of The Valley being down I looked at some numbers

FWIW, I did an article last year regarding the $$$ that the NCAA doles out. Here is part of it...

http://www.panthernation.com/showthread.php?t=10655