UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

[D Panther]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

Why are we feeding the troll. Hawk fans have always been and will always be delusional. Let it be the better team won and now in tipical callssy Hawk fation don't want to play the superior program. So I will leave it with this: whether you like or don't like it LEARN to LOVE it because it is the BEST thing going in Iowa today.

[otter]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

Sounds like Getwitit is just as delusional as Fran:

Asked if he had any regrets over what happened Tuesday, McCaffery said. “I have no regrets.”

Asked if he was disappointed at how his team responded down the stretch, McCaffery said, “What happened at that point had nothing to do with our team.”

All the way to the end of the game?

“All the way to the end of the game,” McCaffery said.

[CincyPanther88]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Breaking down disparity in fouls and FTs.

Please tellme you are joking? 2 fouls in nearly 16 minutes. That is really an incredible statistic that would be hard to match. I bet you can't find another game in which that happened. Do you follow b-ball or did you ever play? It's not just the number of fouls, it's the nature of the fouls. Iowa got dinged for a bunch of cheapies and UNI was getting away with the same thing.

You should watch more UNI games. In the past several years, there have been several games where UNI has had 2, 3 or even 4 fouls over that period of time.

[PantherHawk]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

The only problem I see and its not with just the UNI/Iowa game, I was watching a game last night where the refs seemed lost again. They were calling random fouls, even the guys on ESPN said, "I don't know what he did to get that foul, but that's not a foul in most levels of basketball." They were just replaying every foul and wondering what the kids were doing wrong. They were just lost as to what these guys were watching, because it wasn't a basketball game.

The refs are working 4-6 games a week? These guys are already worn out and its early December. The NCAA has taken steps in trying to get new "blood" in each conference because as a coach/official myself it gets boring seeing the same officials week in and week out. As an official it really gets old to have the same coach on your @ss night in and night out. Sadly, the NCAA is not getting very many guys who want to officiate anymore. The older generation is hanging it up and there is not very many young guys who want to step in. I mean Hightower, Valentine, Higgens, Older Higgens, Sanzere are all working 4-5 game a week! That is a lot of basketball and after a while it seems the refs get on cruise control and forget where they are at.

Prime example Higgens worked the UNI/Iowa game on Tuesday, Wednesday he was working the OSU/MSU game and he handed a Technical in that game as well. Why is he working back to back nights, can you imagine traveling from CF or CR to the next game location? Thats a lot of travel and probably taking a toll on him already in the young season.

I would like to see some new officials in there, because some of these guys are getting worn out already. Wasn't the older higgens the one who let the St. John player run out of bounds, travel and still allowed time to run off the clock? Prime example, some of these guys have already worked 20+ games in the young season!

[UnderParPanther]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

The only problem I see and its not with just the UNI/Iowa game, I was watching a game last night where the refs seemed lost again. They were calling random fouls, even the guys on ESPN said, "I don't know what he did to get that foul, but that's not a foul in most levels of basketball." They were just replaying every foul and wondering what the kids were doing wrong. They were just lost as to what these guys were watching, because it wasn't a basketball game.

The refs are working 4-6 games a week? These guys are already worn out and its early December. The NCAA has taken steps in trying to get new "blood" in each conference because as a coach/official myself it gets boring seeing the same officials week in and week out. As an official it really gets old to have the same coach on your @ss night in and night out. Sadly, the NCAA is not getting very many guys who want to officiate anymore. The older generation is hanging it up and there is not very many young guys who want to step in. I mean Hightower, Valentine, Higgens, Older Higgens, Sanzere are all working 4-5 game a week! That is a lot of basketball and after a while it seems the refs get on cruise control and forget where they are at.

Prime example Higgens worked the UNI/Iowa game on Tuesday, Wednesday he was working the OSU/MSU game and he handed a Technical in that game as well. Why is he working back to back nights, can you imagine traveling from CF or CR to the next game location? Thats a lot of travel and probably taking a toll on him already in the young season.

I would like to see some new officials in there, because some of these guys are getting worn out already. Wasn't the older higgens the one who let the St. John player run out of bounds, travel and still allowed time to run off the clock? Prime example, some of these guys have already worked 20+ games in the young season!

I'm pretty sure it was the older higgins who did that st john game. the other higgins also did the west virginia-kansas st game last night.

i also officiate and the way we are putting officials under a microscope is getting very tiresome for me. officials don't have the luxury of rewinding a dvr or watching the replay the way we do at home or when they do it live on tv to see if they got a foul correct/wrong. most announcers/fans dont really know all of the rules anyway...example is: there is no over the back..its a push. its drives me nuts when officiating and a partner actually goes to the scores table and calls over the back. and for those in the stands/at home the college game is much faster than you think it is. its very easy to sit in the stands or at home and think you see all these mistakes/miscalls (and admittingly i used to be like that) but after i started officiating i dvr everygame i can that i see live and then go back and check on calls which from the stands looked iffy. i'd say 99% of the time the officials are getting it correct. what looks like a foul (or no call) from one angle will look exactly the opposite from another angle.


i totally agree that officials are working way to many games at the collegiate level. i'm not sure how you can put a cap on it, but 3-4 games a week max wouldn't be a big deal as most (see the higgins from above for the exception) of them are in shape enough to work that much.

just my .02

[in_the_stands]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

99% correct seems quite a bit on the high side. BB is a damn tough game to officiate, I agree.

Are there still guys with their own airplanes that ref 2 games a day (e.g. Bain, Hightower)?

[9YRPLAN]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

i must agree that that MVC refs allow defenses to get away with a lot more contact. however i believe this is advantage to valley schools as it tends to negate an athletic advantage. Higgins was familiar with UNI's style and thats why many of the calls were made. i do feel like he was anticipating a little too much, as well as the aforementioned random calls that occured. i just dont feel like they had control of the game or that either coach knew what to expect.

the refs looked a lot worse to iowa fans because they are not used to seeing a team actually have a defensive strategy and executing it.

[UnderParPanther]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

99% correct seems quite a bit on the high side. BB is a damn tough game to officiate, I agree.

Are there still guys with their own airplanes that ref 2 games a day (e.g. Bain, Hightower)?

i meant 99% of the calls i go look at were correctly called. i didnt know they were private jetting to get 2 games in during a day..

something i should have added about why you are seeing the same officials and not too many new ones:

officiating at the college level is tough enough w/ making calls, but you also have to be excellent in game/conflict management. i'd guess a fair amount of people could call fouls and such during a game, but those that are able to deal w/ coaches and block out fans are the ones who sustain a job reffing in college. its easy as a coach/fan to get on officials as you don't think anything of it, but when you are on the other end of it it's a completely difference experience.

[9YRPLAN]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

the only really horrible calls that stand out to me are the marble vs pehl play and the one where gatens was going up the sideline and got called for the foul. refs need to avoid bad misses like those because they really stand out and skew perception.

[UnderParPanther]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

the pehl play was a foul...the gatens one was different as he did initiate contact w/ sonnen using his arm and tried to move him. i went and relooked at that one it was probably a no call...and might have been w/o all the drama going on. i didn't have a problem w/ the touch fouls being called after the T's as you don't want the game getting out of control and someone getting hurt.

[Panther-Sheik]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

the only really horrible calls that stand out to me are the marble vs pehl play and the one where gatens was going up the sideline and got called for the foul. refs need to avoid bad misses like those because they really stand out and skew perception.

Pehl should have been called for a push / clear out. Those get missed sometimes, though. Should have been called...wasn't. Gatens' was a total frustration play on his part it looked like. I have watched it many times, and saw it live. He was going roller derby on that one just trying to throw a shoulder / body into Sonnen and the only real reason I can see for it is that he was recently called for a charge on Sonnen a trip earlier down the court. It looked funny because Gatens basically whiffed on the attempt and went rolling across the floor, but I think the ref (Higgins) saw the intent as much as the contact on that one and called the foul to control a potentially escalating situation.

[9YRPLAN]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

i dont disagree with your analysis, but that is rarely if ever called on the offense.

[Kyle]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

I just watched the reply last night and must say the officiating was really pretty good IMO.

I counted about 4 questionable calls against Iowa and about 2 questionable calls against UNI. I also counted about 4 missed calls, most notably an obvious over the back when Basbe jumped over AJ's back to get a rebound. All the technical fouls (which is really what cost Iowa the game) were legit.

[PantherHawk]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

I know officiating is a tough gig, but I know even at the high school level and JUCO level, I get worn out at times. I finally slimmed down my schedule to doing 2 high school games and 1 JUCO game. They threatened me if I didn't take anymore college game, that I would lose my status and they would stop calling me.

3 games for me is ENOUGH, its takes a toll on your body traveling and then running up and down the floor. I am in decent shape, but there are game where its up-tempo and you feel like you ran 10 miles! But I just can't imagine these guys working all these games during the week. I know my brain would get worn out. I don't know how they keep themselves mentally focused for each game. (I know they get paid pretty good)

[pantherfan4ever]

Re: UNI vs. Iowa.. Boxscore is Misleading...

Just watched the first half again (plan to watch the 2nd half too) and decided to focus on the disparity in 2 point shots made. It is in the first half when Fran began to get so mad so I also looked at questionable calls on both sides.

We know that Iowa took 18 2 point shots in the first half compared to UNIs 11. We also know iowa made 12 of those compared to only 4 made by UNI. So why wasnt iowa rewarded with more trips to the foul line if they were taking it to the hoop and being more physical than UNI?

The answer is, as with the fouls and FTs, the numbers dont explain the true story. Iowa was NOT more physical and going to the hoop more than UNI.

Out of Iowas 18 shots, only 6 of them were drives/post ups/dunks. The other 12 were midrange to long rang 2 point jump shots or fall always.

UNI on the other hand shot less 2 point shots but actually took MORE drives/post ups/dunks than Iowa. Out of 11 shots, 9 were layups or post ups. Only 2 of UNIs 2 point shots were midrange.

In the first half there were a number of questionable calls, as every game has, but it definitely was not heavily in favor of UNI. One could debate almost every call each game but I only focused on ones I thought stood out most or heard Iowa fans complaining the most about.

Questionable calls against Iowa:*
*Hooking call on McCabe
*Travel by Basabe
*Charge call against Basabe
*Foul on Archie as Tuttle backs across lane
*Foul Brommer against Pehls backdown

Questionable calls against UNI:
*Pehl foul on Basabe on drive to hoop
*Oglesby lowering shoulder to create space on made shot. Just as clear as Pehl getting away with the elbow in 2nd half
*Travel on James. Just as questionable as Basabes travel
*Foul on Moran as May drove across lane. Nearly identicle to Archie call against Tuttle
*Foul on Moran as Oglesby dribbled at 3pt line.

Now, I haven't watched the 2nd half with this same attention to 2 point shots and all questionable calls, but as far as the first half goes, there definitely wasn't a UNI advantage given by the refs or any truth to Iowa being more physical and driving/posting up more often.