New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

[run&blade]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

Football brings more out of towners to campus than all the other sports combine and has made countless trips to the playoffs.

Basketball has won a total of three ncaa tournament games in its history.

Basketball will not draw flies if they dont make it to the tournament in the next two years.

[06panther10]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

We choke in playoffs every year. getting stale fast.

LOL. OH NO, we didn't win the national championship!!! Obviously "our program is not in good shape".

Do you know how difficult it is to win? Do you know how incredibly difficult it is to win at a high level, and do so for 30 years? Obviously not, because you are one of those spoiled UNI football fans. Its almost impossible to win as much as we have for as long as we have.

How would you like only qualifying for the playoffs once every 5-10, maybe even 15 years? Because that's what its like for most of the schools in the country. Have a little perspective.

[SubGod22]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

It's interesting that you downplay UIC/Chicago yet your argument for other programs/cities in this list could easily be transferred to Chicago too.

First off, some things that are bothering me with your post.

Denver is not averaging over 6K. They've averaged between 1,400-3,400 the last ten years with a one year outside of that, with 5,400 two years ago. Furthermore, just curious where you get the info that hockey is funding b-ball there? I'm an avid college hockey fan and enjoy following things like attendance and revenue closely and I've never once seen data that supports Denver hockey is a cash generator. In fact, most data says only a handful of schools are consistently making money on hockey. Even B10 programs MSU and OSU lose money. Not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious. Also, last I checked Chicago is a pretty easy city to get to as well.

My bad. I was going off of memory of last years numbers. I haven't seen this years. Still, their attendance is better than anyone we've seen talked about outside of Murray St. Also, attendance has grown quite a bit since they've put a focus on basketball in the past 5 years or so. And the product on the floor has improved quite a bit. They've been around the top 100 in RPI the past couple of seasons and seem to be improving still. They also have a larger athletic budget than anyone else we're looking at. A Denver fan told me that their hockey was essentially what funded everything else. Chicago is easy to get to, but the schools there don't bring anything when it comes to basketball. That's why I downplay Chicago. We already have access in Chicago as far as media is concerned. Adding one of the two not so good basketball schools wouldn't do much for us in my opinion.

Concerning Belmont, they've averaged 2,750 this past year. Not great but also not "just over 2K". That said, you're right that support is lower than one would want and your other concerns are valid, which begs the question -- how can you rate this over Chicago?

I haven't seen this years numbers. I believe last year they averaged 2012. Just over 2k. I rate them over Chicago for the simple fact that they've had a good product. But I've often said elsewhere that Belmont has risks due to their small level of support from fans. But as I've said, at least they've been moderately successful.

For some reason it appears you're rating Milwaukee over Chicago pending facilities. Don't know if you noticed but UW-M moved b-ball back on campus this year in an effort to prove that students would respond to having something on campus which they thought might raise the hype for building new facilities and its been a disaster. Of course an 8-24 record on the court can do that. Lets just hope this year was an anamoly.

They have had a horrendous year but it hasn't been the norm. And I rank Milwaukee ahead of Chicago because they have a better recent history on the court and it's a market we don't already have access to. They definitely have things they need to work on.

I'm not against any of the schools above, to be honest. That said, lets compare this to Chicago.

Chicago the city? Chicago is a great city and could be very attractive for fans. Having a school affiliate there could spawn conference tournaments, holiday "classics" (how about a Depaul/Creighton v UNI/UIC type double header?) not to mention a high school b-ball hotbed compared to any other of these locations which has to at least be on the mind of the conference. And of course there is the potential TV exposure which may or may not be a valid factor. Regardless, all of these factors can increase visibility for the conference.

I don't deny the positives of the recruiting. I just don't think that by adding a bad school (basketball) in Chicago helps any of us with recruiting the city. I also don't think it would increase our TV exposure in the city really. I've talked to others at the ISU board who say we already have access and media in Chicago. The only reason most of them support the addition of a Chicago school is because they live in Chicago and it would be easy for them to get to. But most don't see them offering the MVC much as a whole. Or at least that's what I've picked up from them.

As for UIC the school? The culture is changing at UIC. Its not the same commuter school most of us think of from the past. Much like Milwaukee, they've expanded quite a bit and now have nearly 25% of undergrads living on campus, and almost half within walking distance. And for anyone that cares about the academics, the grad school keeps growing and the med school is in the top 50. Heck, I believe it would be the only school in the MVC to have a med school.

And as for UIC b-ball? They've invested a lot back into the basketball program (a fact that has made college hockey fans bitter since the mid-90s, ironically). The Pavillion is a nice, on campus arena with a lot of recent upgrades. From a fan perspective its accessible easily by car and public transit. The teams obviously haven't been overly stellar but there was some obvious improvement this season and Howard Moore was a valued assistant before going there. And historically they've finished at .500 or better 2/3rds of the time since going Div 1. So perhaps the pieces are in place for them to make the jump?

Bottom line, none of the options jump out as fantastic but I'm starting to really warm to the idea that UIC is the "best" choice among them all.

I'll say UIC is more attractive to me than Loyola. And I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of having four teams in the same state. If we were to go to 12 schools, I'd feel more open to UIC. I just see them as a bottom feeder right away and don't know if they could ever really overcome that. Perhaps I'm wrong. I'm always open to hearing from others who may have more knowledge or understanding of certain areas. If UIC can show the Presidents that they're committed to funding and improving their product, I'm not against it. I'm not completely against them anyway. I do like the idea of getting a good/decent school in a respectable market that has the potential to be an upper half team.

And that's why I'm high on Denver. I recently heard from someone that lives out there that Denver has been doing a lot to grow their product and while they'll never be #1 in college basketball in the city, they may already be #2. And that there could help exposure and a little more TV money as FSNwhatever is sure to join the Valley Network which could give us a little bump in pay there. Another reason I look at others outside of our footprint more than Chicago. Maybe I place a little too much emphasis on those things. It could be. If we're to remain in the MVC, I want it to be as strong as possible in basketball. That's where my thinking comes from.

[BCPanther]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

Football brings more out of towners to campus than all the other sports combine and has made countless trips to the playoffs.

Basketball has won a total of three ncaa tournament games in its history.

Basketball will not draw flies if they dont make it to the tournament in the next two years.

Did Jake steal your girlfriend at some point??

Its fine if you prefer football, but you don't have to be a douche about it...

[Born-a-Panther]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

Oh my gosh have we become a spoiled fanbase. It does not look good on us either.

[achrist70]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

UNI is never going to cut football, way too much tradition and way too much invested into the program to cut it

[BCPanther]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

UNI is never going to cut football, way too much tradition and way too much invested into the program to cut it

I believe it would be cut before we would attempt a non-scholarship program or dropping to DII.

That said, the chances are very, very, very small...

[JayJ79]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

didn't Drake have a fair amount of tradition in its football program prior to going non-scholly?

[95UNIGRAD]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

Did Jake steal your girlfriend at some point??

Its fine if you prefer football, but you don't have to be a douche about it...

I don't like his delivery, either, BC, but there's nothing in those three statements that is false.

Football DOES bring more out of towners than other sports, and I'm one of them.

We HAVE only won three tourney games (hopefully more in the near future, and we've come a long way, baby)

We have trouble drawing for anybody but Creighton, WSU, and Iowa/ISU right now; and two of those games have either ceased to exist or probably will cease to exist (CU) next year. If we do backslide at all or don't improve, it will be tough to get McLeod more than half full.

I'm an eternal optimist, but sorry, he's right on all these points.

[williebat]

LOL. OH NO, we didn't win the national championship!!! Obviously "our program is not in good shape".

Do you know how difficult it is to win? Do you know how incredibly difficult it is to win at a high level, and do so for 30 years? Obviously not, because you are one of those spoiled UNI football fans. Its almost impossible to win as much as we have for as long as we have.

How would you like only qualifying for the playoffs once every 5-10, maybe even 15 years? Because that's what its like for most of the schools in the country. Have a little perspective.

Talk to ndsu

[95UNIGRAD]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

Talk to ndsu

That, and I also don't want to be "all the other schools in the country". I want and expect, with the tradition and success we have, to be among the best every year. I'm not expecting the big trophy every year, but we should at least be in the hunt for it.

[TH1974]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

Oh my gosh have we become a spoiled fanbase. It does not look good on us either.

Hmmmm.......

[achrist70]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

didn't Drake have a fair amount of tradition in its football program prior to going non-scholly?

Yes with Johnny Bright and they had some other good teams, but I wouldn't say it is anywhere to the level that we have it. Plus most of their best teams were in 1950's and before

[lakesbison]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

Being national champs really really sucks.........NOT!!

The fact that mvc is so afraid of ndsu dominating in basketball and other sports as well shows the insecurity of the mvc schools

[UNIGrainer]

Re: New Valley Team (to replace Crayton)

Being national champs really really sucks.........NOT!!

The fact that mvc is so afraid of ndsu dominating in basketball and other sports as well shows the insecurity of the mvc schools

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZDewhEHKD0c