McDermott

[sivert]

Re: McDermott

...
Because of how late Doug left we couldn't find anyone to fill that roster spot that year
...

Part of the problem is that for the student-athletes this is amateur. But for the fans, school, coaches, etc. it's professional.

I read this article and I feel like I can see Doug's perspective; he just decided he wanted to play for his dad.

- IF college basketball was purely amateur, that would be no big deal. He'd go and play and we'd all be happy for him.
A small part of me does feel happy for him and how everything worked out for him.

- IF college basketball was purely professional, then when Greg called asking for a in-conference transfer, we would have said, "What do you have?" Maybe get that pink-shoe guy Echinique in trade. That would have meant we still had someone for that spot.

[catsize]

Re: McDermott

Part of the problem is that for the student-athletes this is amateur. But for the fans, school, coaches, etc. it's professional.

I read this article and I feel like I can see Doug's perspective; he just decided he wanted to play for his dad.

- IF college basketball was purely amateur, that would be no big deal. He'd go and play and we'd all be happy for him.
A small part of me does feel happy for him and how everything worked out for him.

- IF college basketball was purely professional, then when Greg called asking for a in-conference transfer, we would have said, "What do you have?" Maybe get that pink-shoe guy Echinique in trade. That would have meant we still had someone for that spot.

And I call bull. If he had wanted to play for his dad he could have walked on at Iowa State or had his dad offer. He knew he couldn't do that because his dad was about to get canned from Iowa State so he looked for an option to go to that he could walk away from once his dad was out at Iowa State. I am still convinced that even if he played here for a season, he would have left as soon as his dad landed a new gig. Thanks to Dana Altman, he got to leave before ever landing here.

[Codytwo]

Re: McDermott

Doug made the decision that was not only best for him at the time, but ultimately ended up being best for his life (this includes securing even more job security for his father). While we would have loved to enjoy having him around at UNI for four years, even though I selfishly feel the pain of his decision, I honestly can't blame him for what he did.

If you were in his shoes as a senior in high school and you had to make the same decision what would you do? (he didn't make the decision without knowing that Jake was going to let him out of his LOI, so keep that in mind)

The stars aligned at precisely the right time for Doug. His dad went to Creighton, he was let out of his letter of intent by a family friend, he became a nationally recognized player, he took Creighton from the MVC to the Big East, and he ended up not only in the NBA, but with a decent role on that NBA team (potentially because a guy from his hometown is the coach of the Bulls). The interesting part of this entire scenario is that none of this happens if Harrison Barnes goes to Iowa State (I know this was unlikely). I can't imagine that Greg leaves ISU if Barnes commits to stay in Ames. Heck, if Barnes stays in Ames, Hoiberg doesn't eventually become the coach of the Bulls.

It's quite remarkable the indirect impact that the decision of one high school senior had on a program (Creighton) that didn't even recruit him.

I honestly think that Creighton would still be in the MVC today if Harrison Barnes had committed to ISU.

[ubuntuCAT]

Re: McDermott

And I call bull. If he had wanted to play for his dad he could have walked on at Iowa State or had his dad offer. He knew he couldn't do that because his dad was about to get canned from Iowa State so he looked for an option to go to that he could walk away from once his dad was out at Iowa State. I am still convinced that even if he played here for a season, he would have left as soon as his dad landed a new gig. Thanks to Dana Altman, he got to leave before ever landing here.

What do you mean you call bull? Why would he go to ISU to play for his dad if he's also thinking his dad won't be coaching there long?

[JD720]

Re: McDermott

Doug made the decision that was not only best for him at the time, but ultimately ended up being best for his life (this includes securing even more job security for his father). While we would have loved to enjoy having him around at UNI for four years, even though I selfishly feel the pain of his decision, I honestly can't blame him for what he did.

If you were in his shoes as a senior in high school and you had to make the same decision what would you do? (he didn't make the decision without knowing that Jake was going to let him out of his LOI, so keep that in mind)

The stars aligned at precisely the right time for Doug. His dad went to Creighton, he was let out of his letter of intent by a family friend, he became a nationally recognized player, he took Creighton from the MVC to the Big East, and he ended up not only in the NBA, but with a decent role on that NBA team (potentially because a guy from his hometown is the coach of the Bulls). The interesting part of this entire scenario is that none of this happens if Harrison Barnes goes to Iowa State (I know this was unlikely). I can't imagine that Greg leaves ISU if Barnes commits to stay in Ames. Heck, if Barnes stays in Ames, Hoiberg doesn't eventually become the coach of the Bulls.

It's quite remarkable the indirect impact that the decision of one high school senior had on a program (Creighton) that didn't even recruit him.

I honestly think that Creighton would still be in the MVC today if Harrison Barnes had committed to ISU.

There's a lot of interesting "what ifs" in this story. I also wonder how things would have worked out if Altman stuck with the Arkansas deal. That was 3 years before he left for Oregon, so it's fairly unlikely the job would have been open again in 2010.

[claw]

Re: McDermott

Doug made the decision that was not only best for him at the time, but ultimately ended up being best for his life (this includes securing even more job security for his father). While we would have loved to enjoy having him around at UNI for four years, even though I selfishly feel the pain of his decision, I honestly can't blame him for what he did.

If you were in his shoes as a senior in high school and you had to make the same decision what would you do? (he didn't make the decision without knowing that Jake was going to let him out of his LOI, so keep that in mind)

The stars aligned at precisely the right time for Doug. His dad went to Creighton, he was let out of his letter of intent by a family friend, he became a nationally recognized player, he took Creighton from the MVC to the Big East, and he ended up not only in the NBA, but with a decent role on that NBA team (potentially because a guy from his hometown is the coach of the Bulls). The interesting part of this entire scenario is that none of this happens if Harrison Barnes goes to Iowa State (I know this was unlikely). I can't imagine that Greg leaves ISU if Barnes commits to stay in Ames. Heck, if Barnes stays in Ames, Hoiberg doesn't eventually become the coach of the Bulls.

It's quite remarkable the indirect impact that the decision of one high school senior had on a program (Creighton) that didn't even recruit him.

I honestly think that Creighton would still be in the MVC today if Harrison Barnes had committed to ISU.

This is probably all completely true.

You won't find anyone, sane at least, that faults a kid for wanting to play for their parent. What happened was the right decision for him and it worked out spectacularly for him.


As pointed out, that's where the feelings stop. There is a built in disconnect between him and fans (as with every player). Where the consternation is has always been that UNI wasn't notified that Doug would be following his father until after it was "done". Notice how he said he knew during the press conference he was going to play there? Yeah, guess who hadn't heard that at that point? Jake and Dannen. Greg, Doug and CU also said that Doug would be allowed to play, without the transfer rule being applied, before Jake or Troy had a chance to even react to the news. Greg then called Jake and asked him to "put his friend hat on". That family has, and continues, to act like that decision had zero impact on UNI and they can't figure out where the hostility may come from (they will also never admit to it causing anything. You can tell that from that article). That adds to the animosity. Remember how Doug's mom wrote a letter about how wrong UNI fans were for booing Doug during his first trip to the McLeod?

Good for him that his life worked out great. I hope my kids have the chance to have things work out that well without having to deal with the repercussions of their actions because someone will put a friend hat on to allow them to not deal with breaking a legally binding contract. Even acknowledging that I can't blame him for wanting to play for his dad, and I say this with every morsel of respect I can muster (not a ton), I don't give a single flying F. I hope for failure every time he touches the ball/court. Always have, always will.

[sivert]

Re: McDermott

(Originally Posted by sivert)
Part of the problem is that for the student-athletes this is amateur. But for the fans, school, coaches, etc. it's professional.

I read this article and I feel like I can see Doug's perspective; he just decided he wanted to play for his dad.

- IF college basketball was purely amateur, that would be no big deal. He'd go and play and we'd all be happy for him.
A small part of me does feel happy for him and how everything worked out for him.

- IF college basketball was purely professional, then when Greg called asking for a in-conference transfer, we would have said, "What do you have?" Maybe get that pink-shoe guy Echinique in trade. That would have meant we still had someone for that spot.

And I call bull. If he had wanted to play for his dad he could have walked on at Iowa State or had his dad offer. He knew he couldn't do that because his dad was about to get canned ...

I get your calling it bull. Doug did what is best for Doug.

The main point of my post, though, is that for our coach/AD the "friend hat" decision was made on the basis of friendship and amateurism and not professionalism.
Yet NCAA men's BB is a high dollar thing. It ought to be professional. If CoachJake/UNI-AD had asked for a trade, it would have been better for us, but weird for the players. It's just an odd amateur/professional mix.

[enkamania]

Re: McDermott

I blame my former employer. He was on the search committee for Oregon's new coach and they chose Altman.

[Born-a-Panther]

Re: McDermott

[QUOTE=claw;454741]Remember how Doug's mom wrote a letter about how wrong UNI fans were for booing Doug during his first trip to the McLeod? /QUOTE]

I do not remember that.

[hoopfan]

Re: McDermott

There's a lot of interesting "what ifs" in this story. I also wonder how things would have worked out if Altman stuck with the Arkansas deal. That was 3 years before he left for Oregon, so it's fairly unlikely the job would have been open again in 2010.

There's also a lot of interesting "what-ifs" in the scenarios presented above of 8 straight NCAA appearances, Gasser, Gibbs, etc.

My thoughts on why Doug didn't go to ISU weren't because he thought Dad was going to get fired, but because both Greg and Doug questioned whether he could ever contribute in the Big 12. I'm sure there were discussions on what it would take to walk on and how he may not play meaningful minutes, but if he came to UNI, he would be able to play and be effective. That meant he would also play at Creighton and be able to contribute in the MVC.

I know some of you will be offended by me saying that MVC basketball isn't at the same level as Big 12 basketball, but it's the truth. Credit goes to both Doug and Greg for his development while at Creighton. He made significant and noticeable improvements every year. Maybe that would have happened at UNI, maybe not.

[BCPanther]

Re: McDermott

There's also a lot of interesting "what-ifs" in the scenarios presented above of 8 straight NCAA appearances, Gasser, Gibbs, etc.

My thoughts on why Doug didn't go to ISU weren't because he thought Dad was going to get fired, but because both Greg and Doug questioned whether he could ever contribute in the Big 12. I'm sure there were discussions on what it would take to walk on and how he may not play meaningful minutes, but if he came to UNI, he would be able to play and be effective. That meant he would also play at Creighton and be able to contribute in the MVC.

I know some of you will be offended by me saying that MVC basketball isn't at the same level as Big 12 basketball, but it's the truth. Credit goes to both Doug and Greg for his development while at Creighton. He made significant and noticeable improvements every year. Maybe that would have happened at UNI, maybe not.

You're not wrong. Dougie would have certainly have redshirted at Iowa State and maybe not really contributed until year 3.

Greg knew he didn't have that kind of time because they were set to be pretty bad that next year. If he doesn't get the CU job, Mac gets fired and may end up at Southern Illinois the next year after they fired Lowery instead of Barry. Somehow, nobody wants Oregon's Nike money and they have to get to Dana as like their 10th choice.

There are so many what ifs in this whole deal that 6 years later its both fun and depressing to look at it...

[Codytwo]

Re: McDermott

Notice how he said he knew during the press conference he was going to play there? Yeah, guess who hadn't heard that at that point? Jake and Dannen.

Is this 100% verified? Maybe I'm late to the game, but I didn't know this.

If true, then I'm with you. In addition, can Jake really consider someone pretty much bullying him around to be a "friend"?

[claw]

Re: McDermott

Is this 100% verified? Maybe I'm late to the game, but I didn't know this.

If true, then I'm with you. In addition, can Jake really consider someone pretty much bullying him around to be a "friend"?

Dannen said, at the time, that the first he had heard of Doug going to Creighton was Greg/CU saying UNI had already granted a full release and wouldn't enforce the two year transfer rule.

[claw]

Re: McDermott

Remember how Doug's mom wrote a letter about how wrong UNI fans were for booing Doug during his first trip to the McLeod?

I do not remember that.

Sorry. Not an article, but supposedly by 2012 she had called UNI and asked for an announcement about not harassing Doug at the game

http://www.panthernation.com/showthread.php?p=306334#post306334

I guess we don't know if it's true, but would it shock anyone?

I got the letter mixed up with the story about Fran McCaffery's wife, when they were at Siena (I believe), complaining about the fans getting after Fran when he picked up a tech

[Trapped in California]

Re: McDermott

[QUOTE=Born-a-Panther;454750]

Remember how Doug's mom wrote a letter about how wrong UNI fans were for booing Doug during his first trip to the McLeod? /QUOTE]

I do not remember that.

This is the closest thing that I can find on that vein

From 2012 http://www.panthernation.com/showpos...4&postcount=50

When Doug committed to UNI he knew he would be playing Daddy once each year when we played ISU. Then Greg goes to CU and Doug goes there b/c he didn't think he could play against his dad and now really wanted to play for him? How is playing 2 games against him that much worse than 1 game? I've never figured that out.

While I personally will not be harassing them or booing, Doug and Greg are fair game when they step on the court this weekend. I wish I was joking about this next part, but my understanding is that Doug's mom called some UNI fans last year and ask them to make an announcement for the students to quit booing Doug. That only makes me want his treatment to be twice as loud this year. Doug and Greg both know what to expect when they walk into the arena, and it would be a cop out if our fans didn't give it to them. If you factor in how pleasant Creighton's fans always are, I hope this is the loudest game I've ever attended.