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  • This post may get a bit long – I apologize for that.

    It’s easy to look at W/L and see 2012 as the “downfall” of the program. However, the reality that 2009-2011 were truly the “death” of the program as we knew it. Here’s my reasoning

    I’d actually start with Richmond 2008 as the actual start. 2008 was “our year”. Montana hoodoo aside, the 2008 UNI team wasn’t losing to Montana in the title game. The way that game ended was the first nail in the coffin so to speak. In so many ways that game epitomizes what we know as “Farely being Farley”. Getting conservative on offense late with the lead. Playing prevent defense late. Having a late lead blown by doing those two things. I think Farley knew beating Richmond in that semi-final would have put a national title trophy in the UNIDome. It may have actually been good for the program going into 2009.

    Going into the Iowa game, and 2009 in general, expectations were sky high. It was, essentially, the same team as 2008. Farley put literally everything he had physically, mentally, and game plan wise, into the Iowa game to open that season. He didn’t play safe. That game was it. Then it ended the way it did, and it mentally broke him. There was nothing else he could do that would get the team over that hump if it didn’t happen that day. Couple that with it being the first game since the Richmond game and there isn’t a more mentally breaking way to lose “back-to-back” games. 2009 would go on to be marred with a the start of the Zach Davis saga. The locker room started to fall apart. Farley started his deep transition into the Farley we know today. 2009 May have been saved when Zach Davis led the team to a touchdown in the season finale with 56 seconds left that gave UNI the lead in Normal, IL. A win that day and UNI is in the playoffs at 8-3. Illinois State marched down the field and scored in the final 20 seconds to retake the lead, win, and knock UNI out of the playoffs. That led to 2010, where things really started to pick up speed.

    Farley had always seemed to be fascinated by a running QB but never wanted to commit to one. Then Rennie ended up at UNI by way of Ellsworth CC by way of Florida for spring ball. Davis was “supposed” to be the starter, it was assumed for years leading into it. Rennie got to spring ball and blew everyone’s mind with the plays he made in the game. I was there, it was just stupid. Come to find out later he didn’t know a single play in the playbook and every play he made was him not listening to the coaches, but the plays he made were unbelievable and it was clear you couldn’t keep him off the field. One could argue he should have been moved to RB, but we already had Carlos Anderson established there and they wanted the ball in his hands at all times. As 2010 entered fall the Zach Davis drama got real bad. Locker room completely ripped apart. It was Zach vs. Rennie. You could see the team wasn’t actually a team. That team simply got REALLY lucky that the MVFC was as bad as it ever had been and still managed a league title – a MASSIVE band aid over the hemorrhaging program.

    Davis left the program after 2010 and 2011 had a chance to “save” the program. The season played out damn near perfectly – but there were a ton of issues hidden behind Rennie’s ability. A
    Because Rennie was so electric the fact UNI had gone away from the WR that made the offense click. Gone were the bigger WRs and in were the 5’7-5’10 just speed guys. The offensive line was in transition from maulers to whatever we attempted to put out there. The coaching staff had no idea how to run that kind of offense. If you’ll recall Rennie’s years nearly tore this board apart. Honestly, Rennie “saved” those two years – but ultimately him performing as well as he did was a mortal wound moving forward.

    Anyway – UNI finishes with another league title and top 4 ranking. Goes into the playoffs and the “we don’t look at bids” committee ended up sending UNI to Montana. Just like this year, the UNI team that took the field that night was vastly superior to the Montana team, but that game was over before it started. Montana’s history with UNI had already beaten Farley. Couple that with the fact it was cold and there was zero chance UNI wins that game. It wasn’t just that UNI lost, it was how bad it was. If there was anything left in Farley after Richmond/Iowa/Illinois State in the span of 11 months from 08-09 it died in Missoula that night. That game was the final death blow of the program – but it isn’t what killed the program.

    As I type this I take back Montana being the final death blow – it got UNI/Farley to within a microfraction of death. Wisconsin 2012 finished it. 2012 was going to be a rough year anyway, but literally every break UNI needed went the other way. Starting a freshman Kollmorgen and freshman DJ at Camp Randall UNI lost by 5 with the ball in their hands with under 2 mintues left inside the Wisconsin 30. Iowa 2 weeks later, combined with Wisconsin in week 1 left the team as a mash unit. Then UNI loses to YSU with the ball inside the YSU 10 as time experies (UNI was screwed, there was time left on the clock but home clock runner let it run). Lost to SIU in OT. By October 13 2012 the team was 1-5 and 0-5 vs D1s. Going into November UNI was 2-6 and 1-6 vs D1. It was a bad year filled with bad breaks, but there was a ton of young talent there.

    2013 was decimated by injuries. Started the season beating Iowa State, boat racing Drake and UNC, and then just making #6 McNeese State our *****. Then the injuries just came running in faster than the trainers could get the previous one off the field. Lost 5 straight games, the first 4 of which were OT games. 2013 Also saw the start of the true QB controversy period. Sawyer couldn’t not get a concussion every time he was touched, and Carnes came in from Nebraska. As I said, Rennie hid a ton of issues in 10-11. There was a shift in recruiting tactic, but a coaching staff wasn’t put in place and the offense was never committed too. Rennie doing well also meant Farley fell in love with that type of QB.
    I don’t think I need to rehash Carnes/Bailey and now apparently Dunne/Howell but starting in 2012 we saw the cracks that formed starting Richmond 08 start to turn into more than just cracks.

    It’s now 2018 and we are seeing the same issues we’ve seen since 2008. We are also far enough away from those 05-08 teams that the luster is gone. The leash Farley bought himself is gone. I don’t know that Farley knows exactly what to do at this point. Imagine being a coach recruiting the talent he has – putting players into the NFL like he has – and not getting results. Think about how mentally taxing that has to be. This program has had about 18 “breaking points” over the last decade. That wears on a coach. It’s why I think a new voice wouldn’t hurt. Get a guy in that isn’t haunted by dozens of ghosts. The Montana game last week was over before it started because of those ghosts. You’ll see there were many who called that type of result weeks before the game. This program is stuck in Groundhog Day.

    There’s been a ton of shifting in the coaching staff – which hasn’t helped style of play be developed. Recruiting tactics – especially on offense – have chanced so often that there doesn’t seem to have been a consensus for what type of player at each position to go for. That, plus not always playing the guys that *should* has probably broken trust from players to the coaches.

    I don’t have a TL;DR version other than simply looking at records and going “what happened starting in 2012?” is completely missing the picture of what lead into 2012 and created the issues. Not that I want anyone to do this – but if you go read PN during the timeline I posted above you’ll see two sides of the fan base – the people who were “negative” (like me) and pointing out in real time the cracks getting bigger and then the people who believed Farley wouldn’t let those cracks actually be anything. They weren’t wrong to hope for that to happen, but they did and because as a fan base (in general) and administration are so in love with what Farley represents about UNI we were blind to the reality of what was happening. How it was putting UNI behind. How it was having a massive negative impact on the program. So to that point of your post - there were actually plenty unhappy with the direction of the program program before the 2012 season. But we were drowned out because "WE'RE WINNING. JUST ENJOY IT AND STOP BEING NEGATIVE"

    Hopefully this season isn’t what it looked like in Montana. At this point I’ve completely disconnected myself from the results of the program – and to a large extent the program itself.
    Last edited by clenz; 09-07-2018, 10:07 PM.

    Comment


    • And then you have the Bizon routinely have the level of success that we were never quite able to get to, for extra emphasis.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by in_the_stands View Post
        And then you have the Bizon routinely have the level of success that we were never quite able to get to, for extra emphasis.
        Meh. My NDSU friends try to convince me, routinely, they are the cause of it. While their rise didn’t help, UNI was in a free fall before they got good. Their run started in 2011. Their first two years in the MVFC they went 9-13. Those were the tipping point of UNis program. It’s not like a NDSU going 3-8 in 2009 caused UNI any harm.

        You could argue that Farley being in a state of mental brokenness was made worse by NDSU doing what they’ve done, (especially using Coach K, Entz, Messingham, Lance Dunn and the other transfer) but we wouldn’t be any better off if they were a normal FCS team. Thevdamage was already done in the UNIDome by that point though.

        As mentally broken the fan base is, I can only imagine the where Farley is.

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        • I miss the Terry Allen years. Wide open football and basically exhaust the other team, especially at home.

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          • Clenz - all very valid points. I really believe that that what changed in 2012 is that we stopped playing a schedule put together by Rick Hartzell and started playing the schedule put together by Troy Dannen. I think scheduling cost us a win per year for the past 6 years and probably cost 3 playoff bye weeks.

            So i'm maybe less doom and gloom on the demise of the program but agree on a lot of what your saying. Maybe i'm not as far into the Farley's wounded mental state necessitates a change but I also understand sometimes a change in voice makes all the difference in the world. IF you can get the right guy. I guess we'll see how it all plays out.

            When it comes to QB play or controversy I really think that Sawyer's injury issues were the biggest issue during his 4 year stretch. I don't think sawyer was a lot different from Grace...really an effective runner and a good passer who could have been on the short list of really good QB's at UNI. Carnes was a runner who played because Sawyer couldn't be out there. Bailey was electric but just never had any touch...but what he could do with his feet was amazing. It's a shame it never all came together for him.

            All that being said - i always appreciate your posts. they're always well thought out and i like the insight you offer. I hope Eli rebounds and has a nice game Saturday in a hostile environment in IAC.
            Last edited by 7YrsOfCollegeDownTheDrain; 09-10-2018, 02:59 PM.

            Comment


            • The change in scheduling philosophies between Hartzell and Dannen definitely has not helped.
              "...the Northern Iowa men's basketball team reached the ultimate highs before hitting a devastating low. Unexpected success, followed by unimaginable failure. And they owned it -- all of it -- for the world to see. Like men. Like leaders. Like champions -- in a way no tournament bracket could ever define."

              Comment


              • I've been on here long enough to remember when people (some of the same people I'm pretty sure) complained that the non-con schedule was too soft.
                GO PANTHERS!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GonzoCat View Post
                  I've been on here long enough to remember when people (some of the same people I'm pretty sure) complained that the non-con schedule was too soft.
                  That was in a pre-Dakota's world and also before playoff expansion. The league schedule stands on it's own now and the committee is simply counting wins rather than caring who they're against like they used to. That wasn't the case 7 or 8 years ago, we needed to supplement it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 7YrsOfCollegeDownTheDrain View Post
                    Clenz - all very valid points. I really believe that that what changed in 2012 is that we stopped playing a schedule put together by Rick Hartzell and started playing the schedule put together by Troy Dannen. I think scheduling cost us a win per year for the past 6 years and probably cost 3 playoff bye weeks.

                    So i'm maybe less doom and gloom on the demise of the program but agree on a lot of what your saying. Maybe i'm not as far into the Farley's wounded mental state necessitates a change but I also understand sometimes a change in voice makes all the difference in the world. IF you can get the right guy. I guess we'll see how it all plays out.

                    When it comes to QB play or controversy I really think that Sawyer's injury issues were the biggest issue during his 4 year stretch. I don't think sawyer was a lot different from Grace...really an effective runner and a good passer who could have been on the short list of really good QB's at UNI. Carnes was a runner who played because Sawyer couldn't be out there. Bailey was electric but just never had any touch...but what he could do with his feet was amazing. It's a shame it never all came together for him.

                    All that being said - i always appreciate your posts. they're always well thought out and i like the insight you offer. I hope Eli rebounds and has a nice game Saturday in a hostile environment in IAC.
                    The scheduling change didn't help - hell, we just played our final TD schedule game with the end of the Montana series. HOWEVER, we haven't seen a shift in scheduling philosophy from Mr. Harris. We aren't getting more home games. We aren't scheduling program like the other top 6-7 in the MVFC and the upper third of the FCS. We aren't getting home games against NEC, PFL, SWAC, MEAC, OVC teams. We are still locking ourselves into only Big Sky H/H series. Look at the games Harris has scheduled

                    H/H with SUU (a team that is usually in the top 25 with years, like last when we played them being top 10) - with them getting the first home game
                    H/H with Weber State (a program that is clearly rising, has been for a few years, and is a top 10-15 team) with Weber State getting the first home game
                    H/H with Idaho State - this is more the caliber we should be playing, and we did get the home game first....but a return game to Idaho State isn't something we should be doing. We won't see 6 home games in an 11 game schedule for until AT LEAST 2021 and even then I bet the odds are about zero. It takes a 12 game schedule to see 6 home games - when many top tier FCS will be playing 7 and NDSU and SDSU, JMU and a few others may be going for 8 home games.

                    Meanwhile YSU is going on their 11th year of playing NOTHING except NEC and PFL teams in their OOC schedule - to go with an FBS game. They have two PFL games this year.
                    NDSU is getting a D2 transitional in year 1 of their transition and 7 home games in an 11 game season
                    SDSU, ISUr, USD and even broke ass WIU have played 6 games almost yearly in 11 game schedules and are grabbing NEC, PFL and SWAC teams for the ability to get home games.

                    As BC said, with the level the MVFC is at the OOC schedule has been just stupid to have. Yet we did it. We've changed ADs, to a guy that by every single account is far superior to Dannen and has done hundreds of great things already....yet the scheduling isn't changing.

                    While the schedule doesn't help, the reality is the schedule is an issue because of everything else that has gone on leading up to 2012. I don't remember the stats like I used too but I'll get pretty close

                    Between 1997 and 2014 UNI did not lose a single road FCS OOC game and lost just 2 home FCS OOC games (both SFA). The record was something like 21-2 at home and like 17-0 or something like that on the road. You don't simply fall off as fast as we did because of a schedule shift alone.

                    To your point about Sawyer. I agree. Sawyer will always be the ultimate "what if" football player at UNI in my mind. Absolute stud in high school. Came in and as a freshman broke some records and was on pace to own nearly every UNI/MVFC passing record. Sadly he couldn't get hit without getting concussed. However, I will never concede Carnes was "electric" and a "runner". Those teams won in-spite of Carnes playing. We had this debate every game on this site and there are those going "CARNES WAS 10-1 AS A STARTER...HE WAS CLEARLY THE BEST QB". Carnes was Carried by DJ. Go to DJ and Sawyer's senior season. Sawyer wasn't great, something like 53%. He started the first 6 games of the season and UNI was 2-4 and the move to Carnes was made full time (he had been splitting snaps). UNI went on to win like 7 of 8 to finish the season and lost in Fargo in the quarters and the "proof" that was the right move was the record. What was completely ignored is that through those first 6 games (SDSU homecoming loss was the final game of those 6) is that DJ got just 14 touches per game through those first 6 games. The pressure, outrage, etc. from not just PN but from big time boosters publicly caused a shift and over those final 8 games DJ averaged 29 touches per game. That's why those games were won. It had nothing to do with Carnes. The 20 point win over NDSU? Carnes was 7-19 for 93 yards. Meanwhile DJ went for 140 and stiff armed some NFLers from that NDSU defense to about 3 feet below the dome turf.

                    Carnes also wasn't a runner. In 24 games as a Panther he ran for 534 yards on 3 yards per carry. He refused to run. He thought himself a passer and refused to run. I vividly remember a few times where the call was a zone option read with DJ and 10 defenders went with the fake and the only defender left was the corner on the wide side that the WR had blocked. Had Carnes pulled the ball he would have had 40-50+ yards easy. The most jarring example was SFA playoffs. UNI took over on the 3 yard line on the east hash mark. The first play was a zone read to the short side (UNI's sideline), had Carnes pulled it he could still be running 4 years later from all the space that was in front of him. Instead he gave it and DJ got hit for a no gain because 11 guys went with the play. Carnes final stats as a Panther were 24 games 134-280 (47%) 1,646 yards (5 YPA) 8 TD 9 INT and 534 yards rushing at 3 YPC. In 24 games he accounted for less total yards and TDs than Eli did in 10 games last year.


                    Bailey had a massive attitude issue from day 1. From what I understand is he was promised starter from day 1 and no competition. That didn't happen. He walked into a campus as a junior and still had Sawyer (a senior), Eli (freshman) and Justin Black (who really got screwed in the Carnes/Bailey years. Would've liked to see what he had). As a junior when Farley finally committed to a style of play and went with Bailey it worked. Going into his senior season Bailey's attitude issues grew even further and his worth ethic went to about zero. He was wearing his Illinois letterman's jacket around campus and to team functions. He didn't want to practice. Farley grew sick of it because it was hurting he team (and other teams figured out he couldn't throw any better than Carnes could) and he pulled a Zach Davis and quit without leaving the team. If you'll recall he magically ended up with a shoulder injury that was so bad he couldn't do anything...and then was posting photos and videos of him working out for the NFL draft as soon as the season was over. It was at that point we started to see what Eli could be.

                    There's been an identity crisis for this program since 2010 when Rennie/Davis started. The schedule hasn't helped but the issues are/have been MUCH deeper than playing Montana, SUU, McNeese State rather than Drake, St. Francis, etc. Yes playing those teams would have masked some of the identity issues in the OOC portion of the schedule, but they would have still been there.

                    I want Eli to repsond and "recover" from whatever the issue in Missoula was. I'd love for him to come out and throw for 220 against Iowa. If Howell plays I hope he throws for 180 and runs for 70

                    Comment


                    • Just a thought after reading the recaps from the last few games, I live in California and being able to watch is hard to schedule.

                      The Panthers seem to play up to or down to the level of their opponent. They beat a top 5 SDSU, then get blown out the next week by Western Ill. Then beat a pretty good Illinois State, and get blown out the next week by YSU. To me this is a mark of a poorly coached team. If we have the talent to have the wins against the better teams then we shouldn't have the let down against the poorer teams.

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