Game 2: Richmond

[clenz]

You keep counting those students. Without the $10 tickets to the public it would be a wasteland most nights.

You're the one that brought up counting students

[BCPanther]

I'm not saying the last few years have been failures. Between COVID, injuries, and other things beyond our control, we've had a ton of bad luck over the last few years. I'm just saying winning in March beats EVERYTHING.

I get that sentiment but using your St Peters example, I'm not sure three weeks cancels out

9th
9th
6th
4th
4th
9th
10th
6th
7th
4th
2nd
9th
Coach fired
9th
2nd
3rd
2nd
Coach leaves

All of this in a league that ranks between 16th and 21st every year.

[CyCarp]

I get that sentiment but using your St Peters example, I'm not sure three weeks cancels out

9th
9th
6th
4th
4th
9th
10th
6th
7th
4th
2nd
9th
Coach fired
9th
2nd
3rd
2nd
Coach leaves

All of this in a league that ranks between 16th and 21st every year.

Maybe St Peter's was a drastic example. They're literally one of the lowest budgets in college basketball and had arguably the best run in college basketball history, but in general people will remember March more than anything. Again, I don't see the last few years as a failure, but it is disappointing that we haven't been to the NCAA tourney since 2016 - and yes, I fully acknowledge our 2020 team maybe gets an at large.

[orangetennis]

Some of the bad luck and just bizarre things that have happened to this program since covid, (off the top of my head):

AJ injury
Austin's situation
MVC tourney game canceled
Preseason tourney (game with WV) canceled
Berhow missed early season tourney
Bowen preseason injury
VA game canceled
Kimmons leaves team
Several Games canceled mid season due to not enough healthy players

I'm sure there more I'm forgetting. I know every program has to deal with injuries and I'm sure others had games canceled but it's sure been a bumpy couple of years.

[Alum 99']

We have 2 MVC Titles, which doubled the program’s all-time total, played in an Arch Madness title game, played in an NIT, won two MVC POY, 3 1st team All MVC selections, 1 defensive POY, 2 Freshman of the years, 2 coach of the years, and 1 sixth man of the year. And just last week signed another highly touted recruiting class. This all despite a devastating admin, a weak budget, and the crippling affects of the covid season and double hip surgery to our best player.

Other than that, our program has accomplished nothing the last 6 years.

I think you left out the players on the all academic team....Did not all teams deal with Covid? We can blame this year on a young team...which people are doing already....but why so young...who's accountable for that? My point is we are getting passed by....by coaches willing to build teams to win now....not in the future as that might not happen.....Drake has been better then us lately....why is that? Getting to March Madness is what teams all want to achieve....ask any of the players...they would give away all the 6 man and 1st and 2nd team all conference to play in the tourney.....my point with the football team was that fan base is now OK to go 6-4...make the playoffs..maybe win a game then get beat the second round....its become the norm and has numbed us into making excuses why that's ok.....the same is happening to basketball...some want to admit and get better...others....see it as everything is fine and find every excuse they can to justify....

['70 Grad]

Please describe all the March Madness that the Drake men have experienced lately. Since Conference titles don't mean anything, have they dominated us head-to-head the last few years?

[pnthr53]

$$$ that’s what it takes….wherever we can get it we need it. College sports is $$$

[UNIChippewa]

I think you left out the players on the all academic team....Did not all teams deal with Covid? We can blame this year on a young team...which people are doing already....but why so young...who's accountable for that? My point is we are getting passed by....by coaches willing to build teams to win now....not in the future as that might not happen.....Drake has been better then us lately....why is that? Getting to March Madness is what teams all want to achieve....ask any of the players...they would give away all the 6 man and 1st and 2nd team all conference to play in the tourney.....my point with the football team was that fan base is now OK to go 6-4...make the playoffs..maybe win a game then get beat the second round....its become the norm and has numbed us into making excuses why that's ok.....the same is happening to basketball...some want to admit and get better...others....see it as everything is fine and find every excuse they can to justify....

Typing out...a bunch of ellipses....between a bunch of ....run-on sentences......doesn't make it any.....more profound.

I still have no idea what you're trying to write here. What is your point?

Besides, have you visited the football forum lately? Exactly no one who posts on there is happy with this season, and nor should they be.

Stop...your...silly.

[BCPanther]

Yeah guys, if you just completely ignore all of our accomplishments and dismiss everything that's going on in the world of college sports, we're terrible!

Panic!

[Alum 99']

Typing out...a bunch of ellipses....between a bunch of ....run-on sentences......doesn't make it any.....more profound.

I still have no idea what you're trying to write here. What is your point?

Besides, have you visited the football forum lately? Exactly no one who posts on there is happy with this season, and nor should they be.

Stop...your...silly.

Ok. You are right eveything is perfect. We will continue to be happy with all conference players and not make the tournament again this year. We will watch other teams that have used the portal to their advantage and continue to leap in front of us as we make excuses. Enjoy the season!

[06panther10]

I think you left out the players on the all academic team....Did not all teams deal with Covid? We can blame this year on a young team...which people are doing already....but why so young...who's accountable for that? My point is we are getting passed by....by coaches willing to build teams to win now....not in the future as that might not happen.....Drake has been better then us lately....why is that? Getting to March Madness is what teams all want to achieve....ask any of the players...they would give away all the 6 man and 1st and 2nd team all conference to play in the tourney.....my point with the football team was that fan base is now OK to go 6-4...make the playoffs..maybe win a game then get beat the second round....its become the norm and has numbed us into making excuses why that's ok.....the same is happening to basketball...some want to admit and get better...others....see it as everything is fine and find every excuse they can to justify....

Hey pal, if you wanna just ignore every devastating event that our program has endured the last 5 years to prove a point, then there is no discussion to be had.

Did you know that two of our last three seasons have been ended by covid in an absolute manner, rather than being eliminated on the basketball court? You are talking about NCAA tourney’s that were cancelled and/or we weren’t even allowed to compete for!

Drake has 2 NCAA bids in 40 years, finished behind us in each of the last 2 real basketball seasons, and would absolutely suck this year if not for covid allowing their whole roster to return for 5th and 6th seasons.

[UNIChippewa]

Ok. You are right eveything is perfect. We will continue to be happy with all conference players and not make the tournament again this year. We will watch other teams that have used the portal to their advantage and continue to leap in front of us as we make excuses. Enjoy the season!

Please state where I wrote that "everything is perfect." Last season's non-conference portion of the season was disappointing, to say the least, with the exception of winning at a ranked (at the time) St. Bonaventure team. Thankfully we put it all together during the MVC season and won a regular season title, which to me is more impressive than getting hot for 3/4 days in St. Louis, although the latter gets you an NCAA Tournament invite and is certainly worth celebrating as well.

If you set your expectations for the basketball program with the mindset of "NCAA's or bust", that is just fine, but I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment more seasons than not. The portal can certainly be helpful, but it's not the end-all, be-all either. I have no idea why you are already declaring this season a lost cause in mid-November, but you do you, I guess.

[orangetennis]

Not picking a side here because I think both are right, in a way. You can't build a stable program on a bunch of transfers every year but I doubt that building strictly with Freshmen and expecting guys to stick around and develop for 4-5 years is as realistic as it was just a few yrs ago. The truth is we'll have to do both, and do them well, to remain relevant in the new NCAA. Ppl are just frustrated that we weren't able to find a transfer big for this season, and that's justifiable.

Here's a question for everyone arguing on this topic: Would you rather the team have a mediocre regular season, such as 2020, but get hot at then end and win the Valley tournament, only to get blasted in NCAAs, or a season like 2019 where we were wire to wire the best team in conference, but lose in the Valley tournament and likely on the outside of the NCAA bubble?

[BrockLesnar]

Not picking a side here because I think both are right, in a way. You can't build a stable program on a bunch of transfers every year but I doubt that building strictly with Freshmen and expecting guys to stick around and develop for 4-5 years is as realistic as it was just a few yrs ago. The truth is we'll have to do both, and do them well, to remain relevant in the new NCAA. Ppl are just frustrated that we weren't able to find a transfer big for this season, and that's justifiable.

Here's a question for everyone arguing on this topic: Would you rather the team have a mediocre regular season, such as 2020, but get hot at then end and win the Valley tournament, only to get blasted in NCAAs, or a season like 2019 where we were wire to wire the best team in conference, but lose in the Valley tournament and likely on the outside of the NCAA bubble?

Make the tournament by any means. It results in something we lack, money. Get players in here by any means. It would get us wins. We now have to wait a season before we're in contention for the league title.

[clenz]

Here's a question for everyone arguing on this topic: Would you rather the team have a mediocre regular season, such as 2020, but get hot at then end and win the Valley tournament, only to get blasted in NCAAs, or a season like 2019 where we were wire to wire the best team in conference, but lose in the Valley tournament and likely on the outside of the NCAA bubble?

To take that question outside of basketball terms - which makes the decision obvious

Would you rather:

1. Spend your life going from unhealthy, bad, relationship to unhealthy, bad, relationship that ends poorly basically every single time, but you have one relationship that was bad got a tiny bit better for a short time and then ended spectacularly again and continue to have 9 out of 10 relationships be bad start to finish hoping one of them has a very short time of being happy before ending

OR

2. A stable relationship that is consistently pretty damn good to great. There might be a period of harder times, but the baseline is still pretty damn good. Could it be better? Sure. Are there times it gets to that level? Yes. Do you wish it was there all the time? Of course.


One of the two of them is the sign of being a really bad relationship the other a healthy relationship that can be maintained and built on to be better.


I mean, honestly, your question boils down to "Would you rather be bad, to average, but get really lucky once in a while and win in St. Louis or would you rather be a consistently good/top of the conference team"

One of those is the sign of a healthy program. The other is a sign of someone like Bradley, Illinois State, Drake (who hasn't passed us as a program ****ing LUL at that idea).

I mean this with the maximum amount of respect possible because I like the way you posed the question and discussion, that's one of the easiest questions anyone could imagine answering at the mid-major level. Anyone who would rather be bad but get lucky occasionally in St Louis over having a quality/healthy program is insane and doesn't understand what the reality of life as a mid-major is.