GMAC to IOWA

[SteinPizza]

UNI grads more likely to stay in Iowa, and earn less (the first half of the statement has a lot to do with the second half, by the way,) it doesn't matter who you personally know.

What do you base that on? I'm asking this half sarcastically / half seriously. I can understand the first part, but what does living in Iowa have to do with making less, especially as a professional? Again, I'm not comparing teachers to other professional occupations. Let's stick with an apples-to-apples approach.

I'll partially answer my question for you, as Iowa has a lower standard of living than a few metro areas I can think of...notably Chicago, New York, San Francisco, Dallas, etc. That's not meant as a negative, just the reality that to live in the nicer parts of the areas above, you have to make a hell of a lot more than in say...Cedar Rapids or West Des Moines. That's not just real estate either, but everything from parking to auto insurance to buying a beer in a bar. The people that live in those places usually make more than Iowans because they have to. That may partially explain it, but I'm guessing there's more to your statement above than that.

[GonzoCat]

UNI grads more likely to stay in Iowa, and earn less (the first half of the statement has a lot to do with the second half, by the way,) it doesn't matter who you personally know.

This was my original point that started this whole argument. I guess I thought everyone knew this, it has been pretty well documented.

A higher percetage of UNI grads choose to stay in Iowa, knowing full well they are probably giving up a fair amount of earnings compared to living elsewhere. It seems like we've had this discussion before on another topic, but money is not the only thing that matters to a lot of people.

For teachers this info is in the news all the time, but it applies to just about any profession.

UNI turns out a lot of highly qualified accountants. A small percentage of them do very well, the majority of those accounting grads make less on a per hour basis than teachers. Lots more hours, not that much more pay.

[joecooll6]

I think the problem is some people are taking it personally, or as an insult to a UNI education, and I dont think Gonzo and News mean it that way.

[Newsbreaker]

I'll partially answer my question for you, as Iowa has a lower standard of living than a few metro areas I can think of...notably Chicago, New York, San Francisco, Dallas, etc. That's not meant as a negative, just the reality that to live in the nicer parts of the areas above, you have to make a hell of a lot more than in say...Cedar Rapids or West Des Moines. That's not just real estate either, but everything from parking to auto insurance to buying a beer in a bar. The people that live in those places usually make more than Iowans because they have to. That may partially explain it, but I'm guessing there's more to your statement above than that.

That's the biggest part of the answer. The other is that UNI graduates a lot of teachers, and nobody gets rich teaching. Even accountants, who do well, aren't exactly plotting an all out blitzkrieg on "upper class" status.

Even the folks from UNI who are going on to grad school, outside the biology department, are going to become Principals and the like, less likely to be extraordinarily high earners.

Iowa, on the other hand, has less teachers, and a lot more doctors, lawyers, and a TON of engineers. Yes, there are a lot of more average earners coming from there, but they have some specific disciplines to pull up the averages.

If you're equating earning potential with success, you're setting yourself up for a whole heaping handful of unhappiness in life. The value of a school has nothing to do with the earning potential of it's graduates.

[SteinPizza]

A higher percetage of UNI grads choose to stay in Iowa, knowing full well they are probably giving up a fair amount of earnings compared to living elsewhere. It seems like we've had this discussion before on another topic, but money is not the only thing that matters to a lot of people.

For teachers this info is in the news all the time, but it applies to just about any profession.

Why does living in Iowa equate to giving up money professionally? That was the point of my post earlier, I don't see the logic.

[Newsbreaker]

Why does living in Iowa equate to giving up money professionally? That was the point of my post earlier, I don't see the logic.

I would venture a guess that if you looked up who Iowa ranks, in almost every profession, in terms of cost of living and average salary, you would find it in the bottom third.

It costs less to live here, and part of that is because people make less. It's not a slight, it's all quite relative.

You can make 50k in Iowa and be quite comfortable. In many other states, it might take 50-100% more then that to have the same standard of living.

[SteinPizza]

I would venture a guess that if you looked up who Iowa ranks, in almost every profession, in terms of cost of living and average salary, you would find it in the bottom third.

It costs less to live here, and part of that is because people make less. It's not a slight, it's all quite relative.

You can make 50k in Iowa and be quite comfortable. In many other states, it might take 50-100% more then that to have the same standard of living.

Hence my earlier point. Most major corporations that employ a salary grade system for management employees have scale built in that measures cost of living by city. I got an automatic (small) raise moving from DSM to Chicago, but the bump doesn't come close to making up the difference in actual cost of living. It costs more to live in some urban areas than in Iowa, but keep in mind the economic base of those areas is usually a lot different than Iowa's, with industries or professions that don't really exist in Iowa or other parts of the country.

I drove from Nashville to Huntsville, AL for some meetings this week. Rural Tennessee/Alabama makes poor parts of Iowa look like Beverly Hills. In that regard, I'd dispute your assertion above that Iowa must rank in the bottom third for every profession. I just don't see it, and Iowa's standard of living is probably right about where it's population is, in the middle.

And News, I don't equate money with all things happy and good. You weren't putting "words in my mouth", but wanted to head it off just in case

[Newsbreaker]

Iowa ranks 30th in population,

According to this Iowa ranks 30th in income per capita. Every state that borders Iowa ranks higher then that. 30th isn't the bottom third, I was wrong there, but it's close.

[GonzoCat]

Why does living in Iowa equate to giving up money professionally? That was the point of my post earlier, I don't see the logic.

I didn't say it was logical, only factual. Not everything in this world is logical.

Iowa just doesn't have a lot of high paying major corporate employers. We have some, but for most of the ones we have (insurance industry) for every high paying job there are a lot of low paying clerical ones. They (state officials) have been trying to attract companies with good paying jobs to Iowa for as long as I can remember, with relatively little success.

This is in no way intended as a slight on UNI grads. I think UNI grads are the best around and can always compete favorably with other grads in similar positions. Unfortunately being very competent in your job does not automatically translate to high pay. There are only so many high paying jobs in any company. The more that go to UNI grads the better IMO, but those relatively small numbers do not greatly effect the average.

Iowans have always been highly educated as a group, because of this there are a surplus of well educated people in Iowa compared to the number of jobs requiring well educated people. Law of supply and demand drives the earnings down for well educated people.

On top of that you have a lot of people from small town Iowa, go to college, graduate, go back to their small town for whatever reason after graduation. There are literally no good jobs in most of these small towns.

Also Iowans have traditionally been a hard working group that saw value in a job well done and didn't put money ahead of things like family, faith, integrity. Maybe this is changing some, which isn't necessarily a good thing, but you don't have to go back more than a generation in Iowa and you'll find almost everybody made within a pretty narrow band of earnings. Well it's a generation for me, probably two generations for most of you. There weren't huge gaps between the haves and have nots that are developing now, people just wanted to make enough to support a family and for their kids to do better than they did. Many Iowans would be embarrassed to make a lot of money, or at least to have people know they did. That is our historical culture and maybe one of the things that some of us love about Iowa and why we choose to live here even at lower pay.

Coach Jake makes about 3 times what the average UNI grad makes I would guess, and we have people on here worried that he is the lowest paid Valley coach and we need to give more or we might lose him after one year that wasn't bad but wasn't world beating either. I understand that is the market, but that is a hard sell to your average working person who thinks the system is insanely out of control and that coaching a sport is a pretty slack job to begin with. It doesn't matter to them that Iowa and ISU are ten times more insanely out of control than UNI either.

[KaBullseye15]

basketball thread

[Coachdags]

So have we decided yet is it "GMAC TO IOWA"...?

[GonzoCat]

So have we decided yet is it "GMAC TO IOWA"...?

Shouldn't you be in bed old man?

We're way beyond that question. We moved on to the topic of socio-economic conditions in Iowa and the implications for charitable athletic contributions hours ago.

[Coachdags]

Shouldn't you be in bed old man?

We're way beyond that question. We moved on to the topic of socio-economic conditions in Iowa and the implications for charitable athletic contributions hours ago.

Yes...I think we are the same age?....I may be a little older...?(What is 3 months)

[SteinPizza]

Coach Jake makes about 3 times what the average UNI grad makes I would guess, and we have people on here worried that he is the lowest paid Valley coach and we need to give more or we might lose him after one year that wasn't bad but wasn't world beating either. I understand that is the market, but that is a hard sell to your average working person who thinks the system is insanely out of control and that coaching a sport is a pretty slack job to begin with. It doesn't matter to them that Iowa and ISU are ten times more insanely out of control than UNI either.

Yes, people should be worried. Again, it's all about the market for college b-ball coaches. The "average working person" doesn't factor in to that, and nor should he/she. People fall in to the trap of comparing teacher's salaries to doctors, or someone in sales, whatever. Or worse, someone who's unionized compared to someone managerial. It's ridiculously apples and oranges. Let the free market reign, it's the best system there is.

Gonzo, this wasn't directed at you per se', please don't take it that way. There were a bunch of people a while back referring to GMac as "mcmoney". The above partially illustrates why I think they're...be nice...wrong.

[jman2004]

There were a bunch of people a while back referring to GMac as "mcmoney". The above partially illustrates why I think they're...be nice...wrong.

Whoa, now wait a minute. I was one of those calling GMac, "McMoney" and I'm not about to take it back.

Are you telling me that Ames has a much higher cost of living than Cedar Falls? I would beg to differ meaning the only real difference in Mac's coaching at Iowa State than at UNI is size of school and yes, my original point, money. That's it.

So sue me if I found it a tad dirty that Mac left his former school to coach for another state school all for a lot more money. You can't tell me that Mac went "without" while living in CF on his UNI salary. That's bogus. He did just fine and if he would've stuck around and produced more winning seasons, he would've gotten raises, maybe not to the extent that Iowa State is paying him but I guess that's what some of you are trying to say. The cost of living in some of the greater parts of America, like Ames, cause people to need millions of more dollars.