Vcu/ku

[Panther789]

Re: Vcu/ku

Then what does find the "best" team?

I gotta go with the other side on this one as well. This is a crazy tournament that crowns a National Champion.

Take Butler for example. They are in the Final Four. In the third round, they led Pitt by 1 and committed a stupid foul. Pitt makes the 1st shot, and if Pitt makes the 2nd, Butler almost certainly loses. Instead, they miss and foul, and Butler keeps on winning.

Butler is what Butler is, and they deserve all of the credit in the world, but they wouldn't be a worse team if Pitt had made the 2nd FT.

[Panther-Sheik]

Re: Vcu/ku

I agree with all of this, too. The problem I have is more along the lines of "excusing" losses by BCS teams and making them mortal sins for Mid-majors. I think it is correct that almost anyone can beat almost anyone in college b'ball now days (within reason of course). The problem I have is that when Iowa beats Purdue it simply verfies this theory and / or shows conference strength top to bottom. When UNI or VCU beats Kansas it is "rationally" assessed as a 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 event, but Kansas is still evaluated on their merits and deemed a very good team. However, when UNI lost last year to Evansville at the end of the season, it almost became inforgiveable and would have probably kept them out of the NCAA tourney had we not won the MVC tourney. No one said that this was E'ville's (or DePaul's) 1 in 10 or 1 in 20. BCS teams are allowed some bad losses much more than Mid-majors. This is what "angers" us Mid-major followers about the media. At least it does me.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Vcu/ku

I can't disagree with that. Unfortunately it isn't going to change. Some leagues are going to have more popular teams, some leauges are going to be (on the average) better than others, and some leagues are going to be higher visibility. There is going to be a hierarchy, and so long as mid-majors are given a shot (and the best of us are) then the issue is at least partly academic.

[OhNewby]

Re: Vcu/ku

5 or 6 out of 100? I just double checked the score, VCU won by 10.

[LA_Panther]

Re: Vcu/ku

I've heard these excuses for the big schools so many times. It's laughable. It's amazing that so many people, especially the media, can't think outside the box. They can't seem to be able to wrap their minds around the fact that maybe some of these non-BCS schools are actually better than the "name" schools. So many people automatically give the "name" schools a pass. For example, Kansas has lost to Bucknell, Bradley, UNI, and VCU in the tourney, and still people think Kansas is far superior. It's amazing that so many people can't see beyond the name on the jersey.

[Hail Our Panthers]

Re: Vcu/ku

Saw this on yahoo...good stuff:

The Jayhawks Prayer

Our Father, who ain't in Lawrence, humbled by thy Rams. Thy tourney come, thy Jayhawks be done, in San Antonio, as it was in Oklahoma City. Give us this day, our deserved early exit, to a significantly lower seeded team. And forgive us our bad shooting, as we forgive Roy for smartly leaving us. Lead us right into elimination, and deliver our fans from delusions of grandeur. For Kansas is the Kingdom with the glorious tradition of being overrated, forever and ever. Amen

[Pantherpower]

Re: Vcu/ku

Great to see two mid-majors in the Final Four--what a tournament! Also great to see the Morris brothers sobbing once again.

That being said, I really respect Coach Self and you know the guy's got to be saying $#!*, bounced by another mid-major. Guy better load up on some Lunesta because he's gonna have trouble sleeping.

[Cannic88]

Re: Vcu/ku

My cousin went to grad school at VCU and her husband went to grad school at Kentucky. They are going crazy right now.

[Stebs Amusements]

Re: Vcu/ku

Many games. We don't find "the best" team in college basketball. We instead agree upon a specific method to determine a champion.

Notice that the NBA, where time is less valuable, doesn't use the one-and-done formula. They use a system whereby more games are used to allow the better team to prove itself. Notice that we don"'t play conference games until there is only one undefeated team left and then call them champion. We understand that the better team sometimes loses. In tournament play we don't have time for the many games needed to truly separate teams, or better separate teams, so we do with what is feasible.

Assume VCU wins the title. How can they be the best when, over more games, they weren't even the best team in their league? If one game proves "best" then isn't every team who beat them this year better than they are?

Agree 100% You have to be good to win this one and done tournament but the element of luck seems to override being good in some games. KU shot 9% from the 3 line today with many wide open looks. They've not shot that poorly all season. Meanwhile VCU shoots around 50% from the 3 which is well about their season average. VCU was the better team today but in a best of 5 or 7 format, the don't win that one.

[Blue42]

Re: Vcu/ku

Many games. We don't find "the best" team in college basketball. We instead agree upon a specific method to determine a champion.

Notice that the NBA, where time is less valuable, doesn't use the one-and-done formula. They use a system whereby more games are used to allow the better team to prove itself. Notice that we don"'t play conference games until there is only one undefeated team left and then call them champion. We understand that the better team sometimes loses. In tournament play we don't have time for the many games needed to truly separate teams, or better separate teams, so we do with what is feasible.

Assume VCU wins the title. How can they be the best when, over more games, they weren't even the best team in their league? If one game proves "best" then isn't every team who beat them this year better than they are?

Sorry News...but this isn't FBS college football. You actually have to show up on game night and deliver when it's all on the line to call yourself the national champion in college basketball.

All the rest is just talk.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Vcu/ku

That was nice and emotional - it would look great on a high school track T-shirt - but not actually responsive.

[Hail Our Panthers]

Re: Vcu/ku

How many sports are there where the "best" team is really awarded the champion? Were the Giants the best team in baseball team this year...no. How about the Packers...they lost like 6 games.

College football I would say yes, NBA I would say yes. I don't know anything about hockey. All the other sports are about being hot at the right time.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Vcu/ku

How many sports are there where the "best" team is really awarded the champion? Were the Giants the best team in baseball team this year...no. How about the Packers...they lost like 6 games.

College football I would say yes, NBA I would say yes. I don't know anything about hockey. All the other sports are about being hot at the right time.

I'm not sure I agree about the NBA or NHL, but you are correct in my estimation.

Baseball intentionally moved away from putting the "best" teams in the World Series when they added the league play-offs. It is never going to change back (and the GD Cubs would have a GD pennant again if they did) but champion and "best" aren't the same thing any more. It's not a bad thing, it just is what it is.

[Blue42]

Re: Vcu/ku

That was nice and emotional - it would look great on a high school track T-shirt - but not actually responsive.

The format for this tournament is laid out well in advance. Everyone knows the method for determining the champion and has the same chance to prepare their team to play.

Teams have to be able to play two games in three days against good competition on back to back weeks. It's a very good test of the quality of a team. There's no flaw here.

The idea that a team like Kansas, who has now failed to turn around and perform on day 3 for the 2nd year in a row, should get 3 or 5 games to demonstrate that they are somehow better is silly.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Vcu/ku

The format for this tournament is laid out well in advance. Everyone knows the method for determining the champion and has the same chance to prepare their team to play.

Teams have to be able to play two games in three days against good competition on back to back weeks. It's a very good test of the quality of a team. There's no flaw here.

The idea that a team like Kansas, who has now failed to turn around on day 3 for the 2nd year in a row, should get 3 or 5 games to demonstrate that they are somehow better is silly.

Then why does MLB, NBA, and NHL do it in a "best of" format? Why doesn't the team who wins game one of each of those series always win the series itself?

It's because the winner on a given day only proves that - the better team that day. More games gives a better look at the teams.

Yes, everybody knows the format in college basketball, which is why it is a legitimate way to award a title, but that doesn't mean it is going to the best team.