Vcu/ku

[LA_Panther]

Re: Vcu/ku

Yeah, PTTB, that is ironic.

I know some people don't like Bracketbusters, but maybe the selection committee wouldn't have selected VCU had they not beaten the Shockers. Bracketbusters gave VCU the opportunity to get another quality win. That very likely pushed them into the tourney.

[Blue42]

Re: Vcu/ku

You dont actually believe this do you?

KU fan.................?

[Blue42]

Re: Vcu/ku

Answer the question. If one game provs who the better team is, why don't the series always go to the game-one winner? VCU lost several games this year - how can they be better than any of those teams?

They're better than Kansas because they beat them on the night it counted most.

What else matters?

You're only as good as you play.

[UNI MadCat]

Re: Vcu/ku

KU fan.................?

Yep. You got me.

Seriously, some of you need to lose the "poor little midmajor" inferiority complex.

I love the upsets. I've loved watching VCU's run. Obviously I was on cloud nine for months following our win over KU.

It doesn't mean they (or UNI) would be consistently better over a long period. But thats what makes this tournament great.

If those of you truly believed what you're saying -- that VCU is "better" than KU, or that we were "better" than KU last year -- then we wouldnt enjoy these wins so much.

Enjoy it for what it is, but dont make ridiculous claims.

[UNI Prof]

Re: Vcu/ku

Yep. You got me.

Seriously, some of you need to lose the "poor little midmajor" inferiority complex.

I love the upsets. I've loved watching VCU's run. Obviously I was on cloud nine for months following our win over KU.

It doesn't mean they (or UNI) would be consistently better over a long period. But thats what makes this tournament great.

If those of you truly believed what you're saying -- that VCU is "better" than KU, or that we were "better" than KU last year -- then we wouldnt enjoy these wins so much.

Enjoy it for what it is, but dont make ridiculous claims.

We were better than KU last year. Better inside game, better outside game, better defense, better coaching.

[Casey'sitsallgood]

Re: Vcu/ku

7 at large bids between all the non money conferences and 30 some for the 6 money conferences and we end up with 2 of each in the final four.

Actually, only one team with an at-large bid made the Final Four this year. VCU. Butler, UK & UConn all won their conference tournament. Perhaps I misread that statement but just wanted to point that out.

Now that I think about it, I think what I'm saying confirms your point even more. One out of seven versus none out of however many the "BCS" schools got makes a pretty solid ratio towards the "smaller" schools.

But regardless of that, congrats to VCU, they've been playing some great ball the last couple weeks. Only think that disappoints me is that Butler and VCU are on the same side of the bracket. Oh well, can't have everything we want, huh?

[Marc Wigim]

Re: Vcu/ku

Yep. You got me.

Seriously, some of you need to lose the "poor little midmajor" inferiority complex.

I love the upsets. I've loved watching VCU's run. Obviously I was on cloud nine for months following our win over KU.

It doesn't mean they (or UNI) would be consistently better over a long period. But thats what makes this tournament great.

If those of you truly believed what you're saying -- that VCU is "better" than KU, or that we were "better" than KU last year -- then we wouldnt enjoy these wins so much.

Enjoy it for what it is, but dont make ridiculous claims.

I've listened to you be a message board Jesus long enough, friend. Kansas is the victim of their own psychosis; that's ALL that it is. Kansas usually has superior talent when they inevitably lose to a school they will then proceed to call inferior. It's LOSER TALK, and it's why Kansas has to deal with an entire college basketball nation celebrating their inevitable downfall in the tournament every year save the year they beat Memphis. Oh, and Danny and Miracles. I was five years old.

Kansas and its fan base is antiquated. Duke beat Butler not because of superior talent, but because Coach K likely told his team what everyone already knows: past the Sweet 16, there are no upsets. Kansas continues to believe that name power is worth an extra ten points at the start of the second half, and they're barely able to keep themselves from saying so publicly. Kansas lives in a fantasy world where they believe who they are should be enough, so it only makes sense that they would lose to schools who simply wanted it a little more than they did.

You sound like a complete fool when you say "Kansas is better than all these teams they lose to every year in the Tournament." They've done it four times now in the last ten years, that ceases to be a coincidence or just bad luck. It's arrogance, and Kansas' attitude of money and muscle will make them a dinosaur in college hoops if they're not careful.

[06panther10]

Re: Vcu/ku

I've listened to you be a message board Jesus long enough, friend. Kansas is the victim of their own psychosis; that's ALL that it is. Kansas usually has superior talent when they inevitably lose to a school they will then proceed to call inferior. It's LOSER TALK, and it's why Kansas has to deal with an entire college basketball nation celebrating their inevitable downfall in the tournament every year save the year they beat Memphis. Oh, and Danny and Miracles. I was five years old.

Kansas and its fan base is antiquated. Duke beat Butler not because of superior talent, but because Coach K likely told his team what everyone already knows: past the Sweet 16, there are no upsets. Kansas continues to believe that name power is worth an extra ten points at the start of the second half, and they're barely able to keep themselves from saying so publicly. Kansas lives in a fantasy world where they believe who they are should be enough, so it only makes sense that they would lose to schools who simply wanted it a little more than they did.

You sound like a complete fool when you say "Kansas is better than all these teams they lose to every year in the Tournament." They've done it four times now in the last ten years, that ceases to be a coincidence or just bad luck. It's arrogance, and Kansas' attitude of money and muscle will make them a dinosaur in college hoops if they're not careful.

Well done.

[Khan4Cats]

Re: Vcu/ku

Ultimately, this is a fantastic attitude. We set up championship competitons, everyone agrees to play by those rules, and that's all that really matters. Still, it isn't more than what it can be - it is a way of determining a champion, which is inherently arbitrary, not the qualitatively "best" team.

Honestly, neither method: single-elimination or series, determines the "best" team. Very rarely is there an undefeated and undisputed team. Not in MLB, NHL, NBA, NFL. Not in college basketball. In college football there may be undefeated teams, but usually there are questions as to 'undisputed' considering there are no round-robin competitions and strength of schedule/opponents/# of home vs road games, etc. will be disputed.

The choice of format in all forms is very simply money. The reason the professional leagues use series is that they are just that, professional. The whole thing with the World Series in baseball (the first professional team sports 'championship') was that the owners in the two leagues would not agree to play unless each team got a certain number of home games. It didn't even start as a 'best-of' but instead was simply X # of games to be played at each teams' park. Why? So each owner could sell tickets and rake in the cash from more games. It is why they play series and alternate locations-not out of some desire to maintain a neutral or fair advantage, but so each club can make money at its park.

Football chose to go with a single big game to be played at a neutral site that the leagues (remember the first few Super Bowls were played between two separate leagues) could evenly divide the revenue. It grew as a spectacle and has remained as such. If the owners thought they could make more by playing a series they would. Just like they would love to expand the season to 18 games, increase the number of exhibition games, etc.

Same goes with college football and the bowl system, as long as there is money in the bowl system, the big conferences will resist a playoff format. Note that the FCS playoffs are not often money makers for the host institutions, especially the first weekend over Thanksgiving weekend without most students.

College basketball used to play its championships in smaller arenas, often on campuses. Only after it started gaining national TV prominence did it start moving into larger and larger venues-where now most regional and Final Four competitions are played in Domes. Why? So the NCAA can sell the most tickets it can.

Money drives everything. It isn't about determining the 'best' team. Only a team that lay claim to the title champion.

[UNI MadCat]

Re: Vcu/ku

You sound like a complete fool when you say "Kansas is better than all these teams they lose to every year in the Tournament." They've done it four times now in the last ten years, that ceases to be a coincidence or just bad luck. It's arrogance, and Kansas' attitude of money and muscle will make them a dinosaur in college hoops if they're not careful.

Laughable.

When VCU and UNI are consistently #1 seeds with the target on their backs, come talk to me.

[MnPantherFan]

Re: Vcu/ku

Laughable.

When VCU and UNI are consistently #1 seeds with the target on their backs, come talk to me.

Poor Kansas!

[Luckycat]

Re: Vcu/ku

We were better than KU last year. Better inside game, better outside game, better defense, better coaching.

Better Pizza---Papa Johns!

[jman2004]

Re: Vcu/ku

When VCU and UNI are consistently #1 seeds with the target on their backs, come talk to me.

Ahhh . . . isn't that what they call "mental toughness" though? Something it would appear that Kansas lacks at this stage in the game, and definitely, one of those intangibles one would need to possess in order to be labeled "the best"?

No one was necessarily arguing whether or not Kansas has some of the most gifted athletes in college basketball. What is up for discussion is whether or not they were "the best" team in college basketball. After yesterday, I think it's safe to say that they are not, and I don't have a clue how anyone can argue otherwise.

[95UNIGRAD]

Re: Vcu/ku

There can be multiple motivations for something, you know.

If VCU is superior, why did they lose so many regular-season games? Why couldn't they show it in conference play or their one-and-done league tourney? In fact, why haven't any of the remaining teams shown it on the court, since they have all lost to teams who are done already?

Again, in the "best-of" formats, why doesn't the team that wins game one always win the series, since one game proves supremacy?

If you think professional sports is about anything more than making money, then I don't know what to say to you. It's a BUSINESS, and all of their decisions are made with the bottom line in mind. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be an NFL lockout right now. I'm curious: do you have the same opinion about the NFL being a one-and-done playoff?

Not one person making the argument that I'm making is saying VCU is "superior". They're saying you can't slap that tag on a team like Kansas from a large-school conference, because they can't get it done when it matters. "Superior" teams should be winning 99% of these matchups, yet "mid-majors" consistently beat "big time" schools in the tourney. Why? Because the huge gap that supposedly exists between them is a creation of the media buying into the hype and the future NBA players. It is a TEAM game and heavily dependent on coaching and systems, thank God - and that's what I love about it. None of what you said in your first paragraph matters, and that's the beauty of it. VCU deserves respect for winning 5 straight NCAA tourney games, not just one (they were a play-in, for crying out loud!).

Superior teams don't allow "undeserving" teams to beat them, yet 11th seeded VCU has done nothing but knock off higher seeded teams for the last 2 weeks. You just can't call that an accident. It's a team peaking at the right time - which is something that should be respected as well for the way they've come together and sustained excellence during the tourney.

I guess what rubs me the wrong way the most about the whole "they would win 5 times out of 100" argument (or whatever similar rubbish someone chooses) is that it sounds like sour grapes. We heard this kind of stuff last year from Kansas fans, so it makes me cringe to hear it on a Panther message board from people who are supposedly Panther fans.

[95UNIGRAD]

Re: Vcu/ku

Agreed. It is laughable.

I guess they should just keep adding games until the BCS schools win more than the Little Sisters of the Poor.

I bet people on ESPN and CBS and other know-it-alls would love that - it would keep them from looking like idiots every March for dumping on teams that "didn't deserve to be there".

I look at the tourney as a chance to discover all the teams that the media wasn't smart enough to tell us about all year long. Without the "underdog" element, it would turn into the women's tournament or FBS football - same 5 teams every year, everyone else getting a consolation prize. Long live the NCAA tournament!