Vcu/ku

[Marc Wigim]

Re: Vcu/ku

I bet people on ESPN and CBS and other know-it-alls would love that - it would keep them from looking like idiots every March for dumping on teams that "didn't deserve to be there".

I look at the tourney as a chance to discover all the teams that the media wasn't smart enough to tell us about all year long. Without the "underdog" element, it would turn into the women's tournament or FBS football - same 5 teams every year, everyone else getting a consolation prize. Long live the NCAA tournament!

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. Good point.

[Panther789]

Re: Vcu/ku

I bet people on ESPN and CBS and other know-it-alls would love that - it would keep them from looking like idiots every March for dumping on teams that "didn't deserve to be there".

I look at the tourney as a chance to discover all the teams that the media wasn't smart enough to tell us about all year long. Without the "underdog" element, it would turn into the women's tournament or FBS football - same 5 teams every year, everyone else getting a consolation prize. Long live the NCAA tournament!

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. Good point.

Brilliant point indeed. Remember when our resident expert, Marc Wigim, devoted a portion of his award winning "Conferences Schmonferences" article to bashing Butler last year. Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

http://www.panthernation.com/showthread.php?t=28565

[Marc Wigim]

Re: Vcu/ku

Brilliant point indeed. Remember when our resident expert, Marc Wigim, devoted a portion of his award winning "Conferences Schmonferences" article to bashing Butler last year. Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

http://www.panthernation.com/showthread.php?t=28565

Horizon League: Everyone talks about the Butler Bulldogs as if they've punched their tickets to the Final Four. Why? This league is too good for Butler to just roll though. Keep an eye out for Wright State to challenge the predetermined champs. Besides, the Bulldogs look PRETTY vulnerable on offense. Defense wins games, but offense scores points.

What, this? Wow. I sure have been put in my place. I especially love the part where I said Butler was going to lose... oh, wait. NO I DIDN'T. Predictions are for people with nacho cheese breath and buffalo sauce stains on their vintage No. 8 Kobe Bryant jersey, worn by a man who is about two or three sizes too large for it.

Predictions are what force people like UNIMadCat to private message me telling me what a horrible (expletive) person I am. Don't believe it? Here, read this gem from a man clearly beside himself with rage:

Speaking of Jesus. You write as if you claim to be God's gift to journalism when you're nothing but young and arrogant. Gain some perspective in life and then spout off.

Spare me the long sililoquy of response about how great you are. You dont like me. And I have little time for you.

I've stayed away from your meaningless drivel ever since our last encounter. Lets keep it that way.

He wrote a private message which must have taken at least several minutes to say he had no time for me. Fair enough.

So let's break it down. In order to be a true Message Board Hero, you must:

• Demand full, infallible answers at all times.
• If you are unable to do so, personal insults are a means to an end.
• Be sure to ALWAYS point out that you're a better Panther fan than your adversary.
• Rather than looking at a situation from a distance, be sure to stick to one point and bully all those who disagree. That ALWAYS works.

[06panther10]

Re: Vcu/ku

I like where this thread has gone.

[Blue42]

Re: Vcu/ku

Yep. You got me.

Seriously, some of you need to lose the "poor little midmajor" inferiority complex.

I love the upsets. I've loved watching VCU's run. Obviously I was on cloud nine for months following our win over KU.

It doesn't mean they (or UNI) would be consistently better over a long period. But thats what makes this tournament great.

If those of you truly believed what you're saying -- that VCU is "better" than KU, or that we were "better" than KU last year -- then we wouldnt enjoy these wins so much.

Enjoy it for what it is, but dont make ridiculous claims.

Memo to the sporting world...

the team that scores fewer points in the biggest game of the year is actually better if more people have previously seen that team play on TV.

For those of you under the misguided impression that the team that wins in a head-to-head match-up is the better team, that is all wrong.

[LA_Panther]

Re: Vcu/ku

95UNIGRAD said it best in regards to a team peaking at the right time. The way college basketball is setup, the regular season is ultimately a build-up to the conference tourney and beyond.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Vcu/ku

They're better than Kansas because they beat them on the night it counted most.

What else matters?

You're only as good as you play.

This is another nice "slogan T-shirt" response, but it doesn't answer the question.

[Blue42]

Re: Vcu/ku

Answer the question. If one game provs who the better team is, why don't the series always go to the game-one winner? VCU lost several games this year - how can they be better than any of those teams?

Here's the difference News. All games are not equal.

If a team loses to another in November or December or on some snowy night in January, it's speaks to their quality at that point in the season.

However, NCAA Tourney games are single elimination games. You are playing for your season on that night with no margin for error....no tomorrow, as they say.

These are the games that determine who becomes the champion.

If you cannot perform in those games, you cannot be the best team in college basketball.

You can lose games in December and still be #1. You cannot lose a game in the 2nd half of March and be #1.

Is that clear enough?

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Vcu/ku

Honestly, neither method: single-elimination or series, determines the "best" team. Very rarely is there an undefeated and undisputed team. Not in MLB, NHL, NBA, NFL. Not in college basketball. In college football there may be undefeated teams, but usually there are questions as to 'undisputed' considering there are no round-robin competitions and strength of schedule/opponents/# of home vs road games, etc. will be disputed.

The choice of format in all forms is very simply money. The reason the professional leagues use series is that they are just that, professional. The whole thing with the World Series in baseball (the first professional team sports 'championship') was that the owners in the two leagues would not agree to play unless each team got a certain number of home games. It didn't even start as a 'best-of' but instead was simply X # of games to be played at each teams' park. Why? So each owner could sell tickets and rake in the cash from more games. It is why they play series and alternate locations-not out of some desire to maintain a neutral or fair advantage, but so each club can make money at its park.

Football chose to go with a single big game to be played at a neutral site that the leagues (remember the first few Super Bowls were played between two separate leagues) could evenly divide the revenue. It grew as a spectacle and has remained as such. If the owners thought they could make more by playing a series they would. Just like they would love to expand the season to 18 games, increase the number of exhibition games, etc.

Same goes with college football and the bowl system, as long as there is money in the bowl system, the big conferences will resist a playoff format. Note that the FCS playoffs are not often money makers for the host institutions, especially the first weekend over Thanksgiving weekend without most students.

College basketball used to play its championships in smaller arenas, often on campuses. Only after it started gaining national TV prominence did it start moving into larger and larger venues-where now most regional and Final Four competitions are played in Domes. Why? So the NCAA can sell the most tickets it can.

Money drives everything. It isn't about determining the 'best' team. Only a team that lay claim to the title champion.

You seem to believe that to be "best" one team must be "undefeated" or "undisputed". That is a false premise.

I'm unsure why some of you have so much trouble seeing multiple motivations for a single action. A "best of" series can be both financially beneficial and simultaneously competitively more legitimate. (Note that the two richest single "events" are the one-and-done NCAA Tournament and Superbowl, significantly undermining the premise that longer series means more money.)

There is ONE reason football doesn't decide championships via series - time. To play even best-of-three series in the playoffs would be prohibitively long, if the players could physically stand it at all.

The other sports play in site-cities because it is more fair, and therefore more likely to accurately assess the teams. Nobody is saying the "best-of" system is the best (or even a very good) way of finding the qualitatively best team, just that it's better than the one-and-done format which exists exclusively when time (and endurance) is a limiting factor.

[Panther789]

Re: Vcu/ku

I like where this thread has gone.

I think its pretty obvious that my post was the tipping point. At that point, the only reasonable response was to:

a) Post a private message from UNIMadCat or

b) Immediately post a 2 part "article" that appears to mention himself about 478 times.

[SteinPizza]

Re: Vcu/ku

The whole thing around who the better team was/is in an upset situation is always interesting, and makes for great debate. Personally, I say bet talent level, and 90% of the time you'll win in college sports. College sports are driven by coaches, but not by schemes (for the most part). In other words, it's a coaches sport in the sense that the coach is the most recognizable part of the program. However, the coach's smarts and X and O ability aren't as important as talent. Recruiting is the name of the game, not that you have Einstein as your coach. If you want Einstein the coach, then look at the NFL or NBA.

Interesting quote from John Calipari this weekend. I'm paraphrasing, but he said, "I will ALWAYS (his emphasis) take talent over experience". His answer was in response to whether he'd want a senior laden team vs. his last few years at Kentucky with super talented, very young players. If talent wasn't paramount, his answer would've been different. Say what you will about the guy, but he's been to the Final Four with three different programs - he knows his stuff.

[95UNIGRAD]

Re: Vcu/ku

Here's the difference News. All games are not equal.

If a team loses to another in November or December or on some snowy night in January, it's speaks to their quality at that point in the season.

However, NCAA Tourney games are single elimination games. You are playing for your season on that night with no margin for error....no tomorrow, as they say.

These are the games that determine who becomes the champion.

If you cannot perform in those games, you cannot be the best team in college basketball.
You can lose games in December and still be #1. You cannot lose a game in the 2nd half of March and be #1.

Is that clear enough?

Could not agree more with the statement I put in bold from your post. Was Kansas a great team last year? Undoubtedly. Were they the best? The loss to the Panthers at THE most crucial time of the season tells us they weren't. What kind of best team in the country loses in the 2nd round to anyone, no matter how well they play?

[Panther Alum 83]

Re: Vcu/ku

Now people on the radio are claiming that the NCAA tournament is not a good way to determine a champion - For crying out loud!

At least Gottlieb came on their show this morning and scolded them (Mike and Mike) for not making this same argument when Carolina won.

I think this year is demonstrating more than ever the parity in college basketball. I'm all for it.

[Trapped in California]

Re: Vcu/ku

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...tow-ar-929129/

Love it, Baby!

[CyCarp]

Re: Vcu/ku

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...tow-ar-929129/

Love it, Baby!

Ha, that is sweet.