2026 Offseason

[BCPanther]

Not sure that i'd want to make this change but don't necessarily think it would destroy the event either.

It does. Quarterfinal Friday is the best day on the league calendar and you're getting rid of it.

[sivert]

Not sure that i'd want to make this change but don't necessarily think it would destroy the event either.

It makes it much more difficult for the 3-10 seeds to get to Sunday.
Because the Saturday games will be Rested vs Playing 3rd day in row.
So if you are the 3-seed, are you going to drive down for basically no chance at making the final?
When attendance drops, the arena is going to be too big. Then #1 hosts. Or let #11 host. Haha.

[krusej23]

There are a few schools in our conference that don't have over 20 fans in st Louis for the tournament each year so I don't blame the conference for this. It also rewards the regular season work a team did. It helps the conference get their best team in the tournament. It's not all bad. It's always seemed really weird to me that the regular season champions kind of means nothing so now this will give teams a reward for the work they do over the whole season and not just 3 tournament games or 4.

[06panther10]

There are a few schools in our conference that don't have over 20 fans in st Louis for the tournament each year so I don't blame the conference for this. It also rewards the regular season work a team did. It helps the conference get their best team in the tournament. It's not all bad. It's always seemed really weird to me that the regular season champions kind of means nothing so now this will give teams a reward for the work they do over the whole season and not just 3 tournament games or 4.

Belmont, Valpo, and UIC (programs that THEY chose to add, btw) don't have fans so the solution is to keep the fans of the top teams out of STL until Saturday? How does that make any sense?

This would be a travesty and do irreparable harm to the conference and to the tournament. It totally ruins the weekend, its going to DECREASE attendance. How would one even book a trip to STL for this as a fan? Most of the time seeding isn't wrapped up until the last week of the season. You could either not even play until Saturday (which you wouldn't know until the season is basically decided), so why would you go on Thursday. And then you have more teams getting eliminated on Thursday, thus pushing more people out of town. Absolutely idiotic.

This obsession with the "best team" getting the bid, or getting an at-large bid is absurd. There was ZERO, and I mean ZERO chance that Belmont was getting an at-large bid this year.

Arch Madness was the one good thing we had left and they are going to ruin that too for absolutely nonsensical reasons.

[GarretW1797]

Yeah, this is something I actually would be very upset at. I don't mind the NCAA Tournament expansion, but Arch Madness has no legit reason to change. I've always thought it was strange that the WCC and a few others did the ladder bracket with only two games per round, and this is just an even dumber version of that. Might as well just reseed the teams every round like the Horizon at this point.

[Username]

I hate when conferences do this format to protect their best teams BUT I guess I sort of understand it.

Still strongly disagree with it of course.

[krusej23]

Here is some data from the last 20 years to give you an idea of what they are dealing with. They have to make a change of some kind and when you look at the championship games dropping a couple thousand people, that could be around $100,000 in losses.
When you look at the 19 standard tournament years (filtering out the 2021 pandemic restrictions), having the #1 vs. #2 seeds battle for the title brings an average of 2,447 more fans through the turnstiles than any other matchup combination.
1. The Heavyweight Era (2007–2016)
During this decade, the tournament baseline was massive. Even when the bracket broke and the top two seeds missed each other, fans still packed the arena because the depth of the league's fan bases was so high.
The #1 vs. #2 Peak: Matches like the 2007 Southern Illinois vs. Creighton final (22,612) or 2014 Wichita State vs. Indiana State (17,208) set a massive ceiling.
The "Other" Highs: Even without a strict #1 vs. #2 game, a #4 vs. #2 game in 2016 (Northern Iowa vs. Evansville) still pulled 14,299 fans, and a #2 vs. #4 game in 2012 drew 16,043 fans.
2. The Modern Era (2017–2026)
In the last ten years, the difference between a chalk final and a chaotic final has become much more distinct.
When the top seeds make it, regional draws like Drake and Bradley can still push the modern attendance into the five-figure mark (such as the 12,318 in 2023).
However, when the top seeds fall early now, the floor is much lower. In three of the last five years where the top two seeds failed to make the final together (2019, 2022, 2026), the championship game attendance dropped below 8,200, bottoming out at 6,346 in 2022 and 6,750 in 2026.

I went down to the tournament 2 years in a row in 2015 and 2016 with friends and we went because we were decent but we didn't know if we were going to win so we booked a trip to St Louis and then bought tickets each day we kept winning. To answer your question about how you book the trip if they make this change, it's the same. You book hotels for Thursday through Sunday and when seeding comes out hopefully we aren't on the Thursday and you remove the night if necessary. If we lose on Friday, you make a vacation out of it still. If we keep winning, you keep enjoying the fun of watching good basketball.
20-Year Arch Madness Attendance History (2007–2026)

Year	Total Tournament Attendance	Championship Game Attendance	Title Matchup & Context
2026	40,119	6,750	No. 6 Northern Iowa 84, No. 5 UIC 69 (Unpredictable bracket; historic lower-seed final)
2025	36,077	7,952	No. 1 Drake 63, No. 2 Bradley 48
2024	34,547	6,837	No. 2 Drake 84, No. 1 Indiana State 80 (High general fan interest; arena layout configuration scaled)
2023	44,217	12,318	No. 2 Drake 77, No. 1 Bradley 51 (First year with 12 teams; massive regional draw)
2022	30,404	6,346	No. 4 Loyola Chicago 64, No. 3 Drake 58
2021	9,112	1,324	No. 1 Loyola Chicago 75, No. 2 Drake 65 (Strict pandemic capacity limits enforced)
2020	43,151	12,112	No. 4 Bradley 80, No. 7 Valparaiso 66 (Heavy Bradley fan travel carried a chaotic final matchup)
2019	46,134	8,108	No. 5 Bradley 57, No. 6 Northern Iowa 54
2018	41,532	10,750	No. 1 Loyola Chicago 65, No. 3 Illinois State 49 (Launched Loyola's historic Final Four run)
2017	50,244	11,744	No. 2 Wichita State 71, No. 1 Illinois State 51 (Wichita State's final tournament run before leaving the MVC)
2016	50,021	14,299	No. 4 Northern Iowa 56, No. 2 Evansville 54 (UNI won on a buzzer-beater in front of a heavy Midwestern crowd)
2015	51,911	11,439	No. 1 Northern Iowa 69, No. 2 Illinois State 60
2014	50,989	17,208	No. 1 Wichita State 83, No. 2 Indiana State 69 (Shockers entered undefeated at 33-0, packing the building)
2013	71,029	16,515	No. 1 Creighton 68, No. 2 Wichita State 65 (Massive heavyweight finale; Creighton's last year in the MVC)
2012	62,283	16,043	No. 2 Creighton 83, No. 4 Illinois State 79
2011	59,144	13,313	No. 3 Indiana State 60, No. 1 Missouri State 56
2010	52,437	11,712	No. 1 Northern Iowa 67, No. 3 Wichita State 52
2009	58,162	14,342	No. 1 Northern Iowa 60, No. 3 Illinois State 57
2008	64,551	17,794	No. 1 Drake 79, No. 2 Illinois State 49 (Drake's historic 28-5 magical season drew massive crowds)
2007	85,074	22,612	No. 2 Southern Illinois 53, No. 1 Creighton 48 (The golden all-time tournament record; absolute max capacity sellout)

[06panther10]

Great info and added historical context.

However, my point, is that they are delusional if they think these changes are going to help attendance. You are literally eliminating more fanbases early, and getting them out of town on Thursday, and its much more likely that the fanbases of the top 2 seeds wont even show up until Saturday. Really dumb.

Also, what I am seeing from that data is that 2026 Arch Madness had an attendance figure right in line with what is has been for the last decade. That is what the conference is now. Creighton and Wichita are gone, and SIU sucks. Changing the bracket is not going to change those simple facts. Completely and permanently ruining the tournament because you think you can get 2K more people in the arena for Championship Sunday is PREPOSTEROUS.

[BCPanther]

That data is all good but it really boils down to five things--

1) SIU is 90 minutes away and now that they've been dog **** for 15+ years, it's killed off their base. They went from selling 3 full sections by themselves to not being able to sell their allotment

2) We replaced Wichita and Creighton (two massive fan bases that each sold at least a quarter of the lower bowl themselves) with Loyola, Valpo, UIC, Belmont and Murray (who I'll get to)

3) UNI has been the most overall consistent program in that time period and we're the furthest away and aren't a fan base loaded with big dollars.

4) As Bradley has been good and sent more people, the atmosphere in the building has deteriorated rapidly. That is just an awful, hateful, obscene and, frankly, racist fan base that pretty much sucks the joy out of the building in whichever session they're playing.

5) Murray hasn't delivered like they promised. They used to take 7000 fans to Evansville for the OVC tournament and have struggled to sell their allotment since they came over. There's some real money pumping in dollars (and the state of Kentucky is helping them as well with facilities) but their fan base has tanked now that they aren't going 25-7 every year and actually playing competitive games in January and February.

[krusej23]

What is the solution then? These responses were just complaining about our conference.
This is the attendance data from this last year. Now I think the attendance on the semifinal and championship game will be higher with the new schedule because if UNI is 1 or 2, I am more likely to book a trip to St. Louis if I know they are playing on Saturday and a good chance they can get to Sunday. Do I think this is a great solution, no but I'm also not the sky is falling. It's the conference trying to adjust some attendance a little bit and to help the top teams in the league get to the NCAA tournament AND REWARD the regular season conference wins.
Thursday 8,960 with UNI, SIU, Drake, Valpo, Indiana St, Evansville playing. Barely anyone for 3 games. I would venture to guess it was mostly 3 fan bases there.
Friday 8,068 Belmont vs Drake, Murray St vs UIC
Friday 8,897 Bradley vs Valpo, UNI vs Illinois St
Saturday 7,444 UIC vs Drake, Bradley vs UNI
Sunday 6,750 UIC vs UNI

[BCPanther]

What is the solution then? These responses were just complaining about our conference.
This is the attendance data from this last year. Now I think the attendance on the semifinal and championship game will be higher with the new schedule because if UNI is 1 or 2, I am more likely to book a trip to St. Louis if I know they are playing on Saturday and a good chance they can get to Sunday. Do I think this is a great solution, no but I'm also not the sky is falling. It's the conference trying to adjust some attendance a little bit and to help the top teams in the league get to the NCAA tournament AND REWARD the regular season conference wins.
Thursday 8,960 with UNI, SIU, Drake, Valpo, Indiana St, Evansville playing. Barely anyone for 3 games. I would venture to guess it was mostly 3 fan bases there.
Friday 8,068 Belmont vs Drake, Murray St vs UIC
Friday 8,897 Bradley vs Valpo, UNI vs Illinois St
Saturday 7,444 UIC vs Drake, Bradley vs UNI
Sunday 6,750 UIC vs UNI

The money for the league is in sponsorships and attendance is just a supplement.

With the upper level closed, capacity is only about 9800.

[FOTY]

Kruse, if you really want to prove or disprove your argument, look at overall attendance over the past 20 years and compare that to Sunday figures. You are looking at apples and monkeys considering the change in the makeup of the conference, and the power programs over those years. Unfortunately, we’ve lost the fan bases that made the conference, and the tourney go, then replaced them with teams barely selling their allocation as well as watched SIU take over Drake night at the arch.

[UNIpanther99]

What is the solution then? These responses were just complaining about our conference.
This is the attendance data from this last year. Now I think the attendance on the semifinal and championship game will be higher with the new schedule because if UNI is 1 or 2, I am more likely to book a trip to St. Louis if I know they are playing on Saturday and a good chance they can get to Sunday. Do I think this is a great solution, no but I'm also not the sky is falling. It's the conference trying to adjust some attendance a little bit and to help the top teams in the league get to the NCAA tournament AND REWARD the regular season conference wins.
Thursday 8,960 with UNI, SIU, Drake, Valpo, Indiana St, Evansville playing. Barely anyone for 3 games. I would venture to guess it was mostly 3 fan bases there.
Friday 8,068 Belmont vs Drake, Murray St vs UIC
Friday 8,897 Bradley vs Valpo, UNI vs Illinois St
Saturday 7,444 UIC vs Drake, Bradley vs UNI
Sunday 6,750 UIC vs UNI

But if we're not the 1 or 2 seed (which is most often the case), I'm less likely to go because I know we will have to face a rested good team to get past the semis.

If we want to go this route, just cancel the tournament and give the bid to the regular season champ.

[krusej23]

Kruse, if you really want to prove or disprove your argument, look at overall attendance over the past 20 years and compare that to Sunday figures. You are looking at apples and monkeys considering the change in the makeup of the conference, and the power programs over those years. Unfortunately, we’ve lost the fan bases that made the conference, and the tourney go, then replaced them with teams barely selling their allocation as well as watched SIU take over Drake night at the arch.

My data is 20 years back and includes the Sunday championship game attendance. Of course the teams have changed and the landscape of the MVC basketball conference has changed. The league has to change to make things better for the league. This bracket style isn't unheard of and is used in some format by the other big conferences. You want to go watch your team in St. louis, book a trip that is not fully based on UNI playing all of the way to sunday if they aren't a 1 or 2 seed. The other option is to help them win by providing money so they can be the 1 or 2 seed consistently. That simple.

[krusej23]

But if we're not the 1 or 2 seed (which is most often the case), I'm less likely to go because I know we will have to face a rested good team to get past the semis.

If we want to go this route, just cancel the tournament and give the bid to the regular season champ.

Saying you want to cancel the tournament is ridiculous. The conference is thinking of ways to make more money. That doesn't mean necessarily making money at Arch Madness. That could mean getting their better team to the NCAA tournament more consistently so they can win 1 or 2 games at the NCAA tournament which is a big payout for the schools. They aren't worried about the 200-500 non fans that are on the edge of going based on what seed their team gets. If you are real fan, you go to watch your team play good basketball and maybe catch lightning in a bottle to win the title. There are other conferences already that do a form of this but just have more teams.