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Originally posted by panther2317
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It's just not that simple. -
The issue is that if we don't look at head to head competition in the non-conference, what does the non-conference mean? Teams from the MVC can't find teams from 'bigger confereces' to play, but when they do get the opportunity, they have to take advantage of it, b/c it may be one of only maybe 2 games they play against BCS schools all year. What happens then (if they don't look at head to head in the non-conference) is people then are relegated to 'well they play in this conferece, and finished here, so they are obviously better than a team in this other conference'. This is somewhat of an oversimplification, but in all reality, this isn't too far from what actually happens if you throw out non-conference games, for Valley teams, against BCS schools.The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice, clouds and thick darkness surround Him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne. Fire goes before Him, and consumes his foes on every side; His lightning lights up the world; the earth sees and trembles; the mountains melt like wax before the Lord of all the earth. The heavens proclaim His righteousness and all peoples will see His glory.Comment
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What does this have to do with anything? I somehow doubt that you would be an advocate of Connecticut making the tournament because of what they did in years past.Originally posted by panther2317 View PostComment
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PTTB, the reason you can't put a ton of stock in head-to-head matchups is simple.
A few years ago, I got an email explaining how Wartburg should be the Division I Football champion. You know, so and so beat so and so and 50 degrees of separation later, you've got a 'logical conclusion.'
How about this...Indiana State beat Purdue, UNI beat Indiana State, UNI beat Iowa, Iowa beat Purdue. Using "head-to-head" match-ups, everybody beat everybody, and we're no closer to anybody getting in.
The point of OOC is not individual games (other then truly "marquee" wins) but the total body of non-conference work you put together.Comment
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I understand that point, News.
I guess what I'm saying is, you can't take it beyond the 2nd degree. I think head to head matchups (1st degree) are good representations of how teams are vs. each other (you play to win the game...may the best team win). I think though that if a team from conference A beats a team from conference B, you have to look at that too...or if Team A beat Team B, and then Team A lost to Team C (2nd degree), you have to look to see if that matches up with the rest of the body of work. I'm not saying Purdue shouldn't have been in the tourney...I actually predicted both PU and Illinois would get in...but, I think head to head matchups and conference W/L records vs. each other in head to head matchups are solid indicators that can't just be discarded for the subjective 'eye test'. You know what I'm saying?The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice, clouds and thick darkness surround Him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne. Fire goes before Him, and consumes his foes on every side; His lightning lights up the world; the earth sees and trembles; the mountains melt like wax before the Lord of all the earth. The heavens proclaim His righteousness and all peoples will see His glory.Comment
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I do, and you have an excellent point...one I'm sure the committee uses to at least some degree.
What I would guess they point to is the nature of this game...there's a reason NBA series are 7 games, because one head-to-head game, in basketball, isn't enough to tell you that team A is better then team B. Hence, the larger resume is given increased importance.Comment
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Yes, it would be great to have 3-5-7 game series in NCAA basketball (UNI in a best of 5 series with Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc...those would be very cool)! But, like you eluded to, that's not going to happen. The issue remains that they look at the full body of work, give significance to teams in BCS conferences, but then don't recognize the significance of MVC play. You have to use the numbers to a certain extent, otherwise it's just the subjective 'eye test'.The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice, clouds and thick darkness surround Him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne. Fire goes before Him, and consumes his foes on every side; His lightning lights up the world; the earth sees and trembles; the mountains melt like wax before the Lord of all the earth. The heavens proclaim His righteousness and all peoples will see His glory.Comment
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Don't you think that part of the problem is that the MVC beat up on each other this season? MSU didn't play a good MVC tourney, that could have put them in.Comment
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Originally posted by AmesPanther View Post
Precisely my original point AmesPanther.
Like it or not, the games in late February and March carry a lot more weight with the Selection folks.
Every time Missouri State has had an opportunity to solidify themselves late in the year against similar competition the last two seasons, they have laid an egg.Comment
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Someone asked if Missouri State could beat Stanford. In the very recent past...they did by 20+ plus. I was just answering a question. Simmadonnah. It's not a criteria I would use to let people into this year's tournament. The reason why I'd leave Stanford out this year is that they were 18-12 overall (only one game better than UNI) and lost by 30 points on their home court to Air Force (NIT team) and lost to Santa Clara by 16...a team that Missouri State beat handily.
Now...please understand I'm not advocating for Missouri State over Stanford. Drexel got jobbed yesterday and I'd have put Syracuse in over Arkansas. I also thought Illinois was a stretch. I think Arkansas and Illinois are in because of their work last weekend and not their entire body of work."10% of life is what happens to you, 90% is how you react to what happens."Comment
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MSU beat Wichita (top 100 team), and then lost to Creighton, who beat #11 SIU by double digits. Why should MSU be penalized for having one bad tournament game to a team that won the conference tourney championship?
The MVC did beat up on each other. A strong conference that plays on the road as much as the Valley does, it shouldn't be penalized, IMO. Look at these non-conference stats:
MVC: .....69 Road/Neutral vs. 59 Home
Big 12: ...70 Road/Neutral vs. 106 Home
Big 10: ...59 Road/Neutral vs. 107 Home
Big East: 79 Road/Neutral vs. 152 Home
ACC: .....66 Road/Neutral vs. 112 Home
SEC: .....72 Road Neutral vs. 107 Home
Pac-10:..45 Road/Neutral vs. 83 Home
MWC: ....56 Road/Neutral vs. 70 HomeThe Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice, clouds and thick darkness surround Him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne. Fire goes before Him, and consumes his foes on every side; His lightning lights up the world; the earth sees and trembles; the mountains melt like wax before the Lord of all the earth. The heavens proclaim His righteousness and all peoples will see His glory.Comment
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How does the Mountain Mediocre Mid Major West get that many home games?Comment
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No team has fewer than 15 home games. New Mexico and Wyoming have 17 home games.The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice, clouds and thick darkness surround Him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne. Fire goes before Him, and consumes his foes on every side; His lightning lights up the world; the earth sees and trembles; the mountains melt like wax before the Lord of all the earth. The heavens proclaim His righteousness and all peoples will see His glory.Comment
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Not the math, how are they finding that many teams willing to play in their buildings. We don't play road games because staying in hotels is super neato, we play them because we have to.Comment
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Yes...Originally posted by AmesPanther View Post
But how do you fix that, Nobody (BCS) wants to schedule MVC....
Its is easier for the BCS conferences to schedule limited conferences foes and be very selective of non-conference games...
I would guess Iowa and Iowa State would not schedule UNI if the contracts were not already in place.Comment
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