I would like to set a couple things straight.

[DancerHall Cat]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

I agree completely 2317...

The one thing that has always frustrated me about EC is that he has never had himself in good enough shape to be effective for 30-32 minutes a game. That is why the current setup is in place. You are going to get 12-15 points and 7-12 boards if he plays 23 minutes, but you are going to get the same numbers if he plays 30 minutes. That is 7 wasted minutes that Jordan and Koch can have to be more productive.

That is what I believe it boils down to with EC. Jake is currently choosing what he feels are the best 23 minutes to use EC. I would tend to agree that the first three minutes are not vitally important ones. If I have to choose three minutes in crunch time or the first three minutes, I am going with the crunch time minutes...

And the slaps in the face continue. Did you, or anyone for that matter, post that EC was not in good enough shape to play more than the "best 23 minutes" when he was playing about 28 as a soph? Why didnt some of the self proclaimed "basketball junkies" and former coaches suggest that EC come of the bench before Jake did it?

Why do people keep making the completely illogical argument that they would rather have him playing the last 3 minutes than the 1st 3? It is possible, believe it or not for a player to do both.

Finally, you suggested in another post that EC is best in "short stints" Even if that was accepted as true, wouldnt it still make sense to start him? If EC is not in great shape and needs to rest, why rest him the 1st 3 minutes of the game after a 4 day lay-off?

[clenz]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

I am glad we are able to find something to agree on. While I won't say that he was/is my favorite of all time, but I always loved to watch him play and was glad to see him have a nice sort of comeback year last year.

He is still one of the best OF in the league if he is healthy. He needs to get out of Cincy. I loved seeing him "go home", but now he needs to really go back home and head back to Seattle. I could see that being amazing for him for the last couple years of his career.

[BCPanther]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

We had nowhere near the depth we have now when he was a sophomore... That team went 6, maybe 7 deep when Josten played

If you look at the stats the numbers are very comparable as far as points, boards, and blocks from his sophomore and junior years to this year. Doesn't that scream that the minutes he is getting right now are much more productive and energy filled than in previous years??

[Khan4Cats]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

He is still one of the best OF in the league if he is healthy. He needs to get out of Cincy. I loved seeing him "go home", but now he needs to really go back home and head back to Seattle. I could see that being amazing for him for the last couple years of his career.

That was really classy to see the reception Seattle gave him last year. It would be cool if he could finish out there. When is his contract up in Cincy, cause I'm afraid they'll ask too much from Seattle for trade.

[clenz]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

That was really classy to see the reception Seattle gave him last year. It would be cool if he could finish out there. When is his contract up in Cincy, cause I'm afraid they'll ask too much from Seattle for trade.

I have no idea when his contract is up. I looked and I couldn't find it. I read it is backloaded to pay him through 2024. It has to be up here pretty quick. Also here is something interesting I found

On June 24, 2007 in an interview on FSN Northwest with Angie Mentink, Griffey stated that he would like to end his career as a Seattle Mariner and that he feels that he owes it to the fans of Seattle.
“ Would I do it? Yeah. I think for the simple reason that this is the place where I grew up and I owe it to the people of Seattle and to myself to retire as a Mariner. ” Following the recent Cincinnati Reds vs Seattle Mariners series, a fan movement has emerged petitioning Mariners' management to bring Griffey back to the Seattle Mariners. Over 1,900 signatures have been collected on a fan vid-blog/petition.

[jman2004]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

People ask why he's not starting. Reasons are given and then ignored or brushed off as somehow "Kool-Aid" drinking.

The thing is, no one has really given a single good answer to any of the real questions we're posing. They are ignored, not your stats and situations. Everything you have posed has been dissected by a bunch on here, it's YOU that fail to read anything into what we're responding with or offering you in return.

We continue to give you other questions, you continue to dodge them. For instance, not ONCE have any of you answer or acknowledged the question, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR COLEMAN TO GET EFFECTIVE MINUTES AND STILL START? No one wants to touch that one.

Instead, all any of you want to do is make up ridiculous statements talking yourself into what Jacobson has done to Coleman's senior year thus far. It's been a horrible lame attempt at excuse making. You're not arguing, you're not offering anything earth shadowing, YOU'RE AVOIDING OUR POINTS AND DEFENDING JAKE. That's all. You're in defense mode.

And all I can do is laugh every day while OUR percentage climbs (82% now) and your percentage stays the same (17%). I don't quite understand what you're trying to prove anymore. This argument is really a no-brainer.

AND FOR THE LAST TIME, NO ONE IS CLAIMING WE'D BE 14-0 WITH COLEMAN STARTING. WE'RE CLAIMING IT'S STUPID FOR HIM NOT TO START! Stop twisting all of our words around. No one on here has EVER said anything like that.

[clenz]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

After further investigation it is up after this year with an option till 2012. I think he will opt out and head to Seattle though

[BCPanther]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

The thing is, no one has really given a single good answer to any of the real questions we're posing. They are ignored, not your stats and situations. Everything you have posed has been dissected by a bunch on here, it's YOU that fail to read anything into what we're responding with or offering you in return.

We continue to give you other questions, you continue to dodge them. For instance, not ONCE have any of you answer or acknowledged the question, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR COLEMAN TO GET EFFECTIVE MINUTES AND STILL START? No one wants to touch that one.

Instead, all any of you want to do is make up ridiculous statements talking yourself into what Jacobson has done to Coleman's senior year thus far. It's been a horrible lame attempt at excuse making. You're not arguing, you're not offering anything earth shadowing, YOU'RE AVOIDING OUR POINTS AND DEFENDING JAKE. That's all. You're in defense mode.

And all I can do is laugh every day while OUR percentage climbs (82% now) and your percentage stays the same (17%). I don't quite understand what you're trying to prove anymore. This argument is really a no-brainer.

AND FOR THE LAST TIME, NO ONE IS CLAIMING WE'D BE 14-0 WITH COLEMAN STARTING. WE'RE CLAIMING IT'S STUPID FOR HIM NOT TO START! Stop twisting all of our words around. No one on here has EVER said anything like that.

Let me put the shoe on the other foot??

What is the best reason for EC starting besides 'He's a senior' and 'It's Just Stupid'??

Arguments both ways can definitely be considered illogical...

[DancerHall Cat]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

Brett, can we assume that if Jake decides to start EC at any point during this season, you will be critical of that decision.

[clenz]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

Why did this thread turn into the Should Coleman Start thread?

[jman2004]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

What is the best reason for EC starting besides 'He's a senior' and 'It's Just Stupid'??

Brett, seriously, you really are better than this. Why are you choosing this route?

Coleman is a senior.

Coleman has started for 3 seasons and has improved in each.

Coleman is this team's best scoring threat.

Coleman is this team's strongest rebounder.

Coleman is this team's fiercest shot blocker.

And the biggest reason of all is the same reason we all watched Brooks McKowen start every game last season . . . (You almost ALWAYS came to Brooks' defense on here last year, why is it so difficult to come to Coleman's?)

Coleman's is this team's leader. He's this team's emotional spark. He's the one that get's this team fired up. The crowd loves his play. More times than not he has picked this team up and placed them on his shoulders.

The best reason of all . . . 82% of PantherNation thinks so.

[Khan4Cats]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

The thing is, no one has really given a single good answer to any of the real questions we're posing. They are ignored, not your stats and situations. Everything you have posed has been dissected by a bunch on here, it's YOU that fail to read anything into what we're responding with or offering you in return.

We continue to give you other questions, you continue to dodge them. For instance, not ONCE have any of you answer or acknowledged the question, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR COLEMAN TO GET EFFECTIVE MINUTES AND STILL START? No one wants to touch that one.

Instead, all any of you want to do is make up ridiculous statements talking yourself into what Jacobson has done to Coleman's senior year thus far. It's been a horrible lame attempt at excuse making. You're not arguing, you're not offering anything earth shadowing, YOU'RE AVOIDING OUR POINTS AND DEFENDING JAKE. That's all. You're in defense mode.

And all I can do is laugh every day while OUR percentage climbs (82% now) and your percentage stays the same (17%). I don't quite understand what you're trying to prove anymore. This argument is really a no-brainer.

AND FOR THE LAST TIME, NO ONE IS CLAIMING WE'D BE 14-0 WITH COLEMAN STARTING. WE'RE CLAIMING IT'S STUPID FOR HIM NOT TO START! Stop twisting all of our words around. No one on here has EVER said anything like that.

Everything I posted has been "Dissected?" As in "no you're an idiot and your OPINION is wrong", dissected? No one has countered anything I posted other than to be shocked that I pointed out any deficiencies in their deity. I gave my reasons for how I would put together my TEAM, that is after all, the concept of the game despite what the Allen Iverson's, Kobe Bryant's and many NBA'er's have devoled it into at that level. There is a reason why San Antonio wins all the time.

As for responding to what "you're offering in return" how am I supposed to respond? "No, I'm not stupid, you are?" Sorry, I don't really want to get into name calling. I state my opinion, you state yours, so be it. But to say that I clearly can't be right because I might be in the 17% group, that's not an argument.

And what, exactly, has Jake done to Coleman's senior year and how does that compare to what Jake has done for the good of the TEAM. If Coleman is really such a selfish player that having the little start by his name for starting or having his name called is that big a deal, maybe its good that he graduates this year. I don't think he is nearly as selfish as some of the posters on this site apparently are in taking such great offense for him. Coleman has said he will do what the coaches have asked of him for what is best for the team, I believe him. People want to make a conspiracy of it.

And as for the question of can Coleman still get effective minutes and still start? Yes, I have answered that and I believe that yes, Coleman could still get his effective minutes by starting. But I don't think Koch or Eglseder would be as effective if either of them came off the bench.
Now, starting all three would be something I could entertain, even playing some zone as I have advocated. But that leads to a bigger problem of who do we substitute in for who? Especially if both Jordan and Eric need a break at the same time.

[BCPanther]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

I would be DHC, unless of course it would be brought on by extenuating circumstances like injury (knock on wood)...

Here is why- I love the confidence that Jordan and Koch are playing with right now, especially Koch. He has shown that with another summer of getting stronger he has the raw ability to be an All-Valley type player.

I also think that EC has demonstrated great maturity in the media through this whole ordeal. He has kept the 'team first' demeanor and that does nothing but instill the right frame of mind in the younger group that is, no doubt, constantly learning from the words and actions of EC and JJ.

Lastly, I would be most disappointed that Jake would be swayed so easily. He has been really steadfast in saying that he is doing what he believes is best for the team and the program in general. I don't think its fair to say, as some have, that this will be a consistent theme where seniors won't get to start in year four. This team appears to be comfortable in the roles they are in now and have been since Thailand. It would be really disappointing for Jake to press the panic button and send this team into a period of questioning themselves...

[jman2004]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

And BTW, again, the question was not answered. It's easier I guess for those that are okay with Coleman not starting to reword questions, reask questions, defend Jacobson blindly, and twist and turn statistics in their favor than it is to answer any questions straight up.

Was Coleman starting ever really a problem and could Jordan and Eric have been used in similar situations and minutes if their starting roles were reversed? Basically, was this switch in lineups and mindset actually EVER really NECESSARY?

[BCPanther]

Re: I would like to set a couple things straight.

Brett, seriously, you really are better than this. Why are you choosing this route?

Coleman is a senior.

Coleman has started for 3 seasons and has improved in each.

Coleman is this team's best scoring threat.

Coleman is this team's strongest rebounder.

Coleman is this team's fiercest shot blocker.

And the biggest reason of all is the same reason we all watched Brooks McKowen start every game last season . . . (You almost ALWAYS came to Brooks' defense on here last year, why is it so difficult to come to Coleman's?)

Coleman's is this team's leader. He's this team's emotional spark. He's the one that get's this team fired up. The crowd loves his play. More times than not he has picked this team up and placed them on his shoulders.

The best reason of all . . . 82% of PantherNation thinks so.

I would agree with most everything you said there... No argument from this guy... I think his energy is a great thing and the team benefits from it, no doubt.

Here is the difference between Brooks last year and EC this year. Depth. Behind Brooks last year we had a true freshman point guard that was learning the system.

This year with the Big Guy and Koch we have two experience post guys that bring a lot to the floor. So the way I see it is that if it gives those two more confidence to start them and then bring a ton of energy off the bench it can do nothing but help bring the best out of all three of them...