UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

[SteinPizza]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Academics are extremely important. If ND decides to jump to the Big Ten it will be as much because of the academic prestige and admission to the "Academic Big Ten" as it will be because of football.

Not trying to nitpick here, but Notre Dame joining the Big Ten would enhance it's academic standing (not that it's bad). Notre Dame is superior in that regard to any Big Ten school, at least in business. I base that on knowing a bunch of Notre Dame alums via living in Chicago. They're in demand big time based on their pedigree. More so than some Joe Schmoe who went to Iowa, Michigan State, Ohio State, etc. They also find work with big firms in investment banking. That's the top of the food chain in any business related career, and investment bankers are usually the smartest guys in any room. The guys I know in that field almost always come from two distinct backgrounds. 1. Ivy League degree. 2. Notre Dame. From what I know of that industry, a guy with a biz degree from Iowa, Wisconsin, or any other school wouldn't even be considered - his resume is automatically deleted.

[cydave]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

I don't think he can, and there are two reasons for that. First, Texas is blocking it on their dream of a Longhorn Network. Second, Big XII country isn't big enough to support a conference network. Everyone has network fever, but remember the SEC very recently decided it wasn't worth the risk - and they're the freaking SEC! The only way the Big XII Network happens is if they figure out a way to make this proposed joint Big XII/Pac-10 Network happen. The problem there: The Pac-10 isn't interested.



Not only that, but USC isn't eating a double portion while Oregon State gets the scraps. The biggest problem - and the problem the South will never allow to be remedied - is that the Big XII divides money by appearance, not equally per school. This is why the "bigger" total number for the Big XII means less money for most of the schools.

For the above to paragraphs. It would be nice to be in a power conference without the Texas schools. They are like an egotistical virus that bosses around the entire conference. This whole thing gives me a headache just thinking about it.

Well, the stadiums are what make the money, so that's not insignificant. Jack Trice isn't a terrible stadium (despite looking like it is straight out of Soviet-era Russia), it just isn't a serviceable BCS facility. It is small (but still not filled, which is another big problem for ISU), but would be a perfectly sized building in a league like the MWC. In terms of other facilities, ISU has a nice practice building (Iowa is soon to build a state-of-the-art facility of their own), but that doesn't earn them a dime, and it certainly hasn't made them more competitive in the Big XII.

I know this is a ways down the road, but if ISU could get that one big donor to step up and finish off the renovations to JT stadium, it would finally bring JT up to Big 12 caliber. Either a big donor or more TV revenue.

Academics are extremely important. If ND decides to jump to the Big Ten it will be as much because of the academic prestige and admission to the "Academic Big Ten" as it will be because of football. Still, academics are a disqualifier, not a reason for consideration. Schools won't be invited to the Big Ten because of their academic reputation, but no school is going to be considered based upon its academics. Beyond that, ISU would be the lowest ranked academic school in the Big Ten, so "qualification" there is at least somewhat tenuous.

Schools may not be invited because of their academics alone, but they can be "not" invited because of their academics. It sounds like the higher ups in the Pac 10 aren't too excited about the academics at OSU and Texas Tech.

This is exactly right. ISU brings almost nothing in terms of TV homes, and the low attendance really hurts their reputation. There is no way to remedy either of those problems.



I think BYU and (soon) Boise State have that title wrapped up at present, but you are right that ISU would enjoy a higher stature in the MWC than they have in the Big XII. Still, the question has to be asked, will those things stay the same after a move? ISU's attendance numbers are contingent on Nebraska or Iowa showing up every other year. Neither of those things will be certain in the MWC (though Iowa remains likely). Second, ISU's budget is likely to decline after the move because their income is certain to decline. They will make less "conference" money in the MWC, meaning their income is lower, and their budget will follow suit.

Yeah, the revenue at ISU would take a hit if they ended up in the MWC, at least short term. But, if we are more competitive, is the long term outlook actually better?

I didn't realize Baylor's numbers were lower. Still, I don't quite believe this "Baylor in/CU out" talk. Baylor got into the Big XII because the Big 8 was willing to go along with the game. The Pac-10 has ZERO interest in Baylor and in a Mexican Standoff between a few Texas Legislators and the Pac-10, the league is going to win.

Could be, but who's to say that if Baylor doesn't go, then Texas et al. doesn't go either. It sounds like Texas really wants the Big 12 to hang together, but is waiting for Nebraska to make its decision. Otherwise, I'm sure they'd be gone by now.

Yes, but they don't compare. Kansas can mooch players off Oklahoma and Texas. Mississippi can do the same off the entirety of the south - a football hotbed. Iowa doesn't have a single contiguous state that provides a similar pipeline.

Overall, the next week will open or close a lot of doors for the Big 12. I really don't think Mizzou will go to the Big 10, I don't even think the Big 10 is really sold on them.
This whole thing is one big cluster F. And it was all started because the Big 10 wanted Texas or ND. It's like somebody said on CycloneFanatic, the Pac 10 and Big 10 are playing chicken with each other.
Too bad college athletics has turned into a bunch of greedy bastards.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Not trying to nitpick here, but Notre Dame joining the Big Ten would enhance it's academic standing (not that it's bad). Notre Dame is superior in that regard to any Big Ten school, at least in business. I base that on knowing a bunch of Notre Dame alums via living in Chicago. They're in demand big time based on their pedigree. More so than some Joe Schmoe who went to Iowa, Michigan State, Ohio State, etc. They also find work with big firms in investment banking. That's the top of the food chain in any business related career, and investment bankers are usually the smartest guys in any room. The guys I know in that field almost always come from two distinct backgrounds. 1. Ivy League degree. 2. Notre Dame. From what I know of that industry, a guy with a biz degree from Iowa, Wisconsin, or any other school wouldn't even be considered - his resume is automatically deleted.

That might be true in a specific program, but the whole of ND is not on par with Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. It is an outstanding institution, however.

Joining the Big Ten would give ND access to millions of dollars in grants and research money - I would guess that the faculty at ND is strongly behind Big Ten membership.


CY, I'm not sure renovations to Jack Trice helps that much, considering it would be 20,000 extra empty seats.

[cydave]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

That might be true in a specific program, but the whole of ND is not on par with Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. It is an outstanding institution, however.

Joining the Big Ten would give ND access to millions of dollars in grants and research money - I would guess that the faculty at ND is strongly behind Big Ten membership.


CY, I'm not sure renovations to Jack Trice helps that much, considering it would be 20,000 extra empty seats.

Well capacity won't be increased by all that much. They are just moving the hillside seating to actual seats in the south endzone. The south hillsides and the current endzone seating accounts for the lower endzone seating. And the north hillsides seats would now be in the upper deck. We would no longer use the hillsides for seats.
I'm not exactly sure what the figures are, but the overall capacity would only be around 55-60k.
But this would definitely make JT look a lot better, aesthetically.


Too bad its a loooong ways off from actually happening.

[TH1974]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Well capacity won't be increased by all that much. They are just moving the hillside seating to actual seats in the south endzone. The south hillsides and the current endzone seating accounts for the lower endzone seating. And the north hillsides seats would now be in the upper deck. We would no longer use the hillsides for seats.
I'm not exactly sure what the figures are, but the overall capacity would only be around 55-60k.
But this would definitely make JT look a lot better, aesthetically.


Too bad its a loooong ways off from actually happening.

If things go the way some people think they will, it'll never happen.

[cydave]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

If things go the way some people think they will, it'll never happen.

Even on our current road, this thing was way down the road. The only way it happens is if we have a big time donor step up, and with the current economy and the Big 12 in the air, nobody is expecting it to happen anytime soon.

[GonzoCat]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Not trying to nitpick here, but Notre Dame joining the Big Ten would enhance it's academic standing (not that it's bad). Notre Dame is superior in that regard to any Big Ten school, at least in business. I base that on knowing a bunch of Notre Dame alums via living in Chicago. They're in demand big time based on their pedigree. More so than some Joe Schmoe who went to Iowa, Michigan State, Ohio State, etc. They also find work with big firms in investment banking. That's the top of the food chain in any business related career, and investment bankers are usually the smartest guys in any room. The guys I know in that field almost always come from two distinct backgrounds. 1. Ivy League degree. 2. Notre Dame. From what I know of that industry, a guy with a biz degree from Iowa, Wisconsin, or any other school wouldn't even be considered - his resume is automatically deleted.

I don't doubt that happens in terms of jobs, but ND is not one of the premier business schools in the U.S., nor are most of the Ivy league schools, although of course a few of them are. In the B10, at a mimimum Northwestern is well out front of ND and so is U of Chicago, which I think, although I could be wrong, is still part of the academic B10. I'd guess half the rest of the B10 schools business programs are on par with ND, while many of their other academic programs are clearly superior.

If ND alum are getting all these plum jobs in Chicago it is for the same reason that some frat guys get plum jobs. ND guys hiring ND guys.

I need to back up and say I'm talking about graduate programs here because that's really what business schools are ranked on. Nobody gets to the top of the food chain with just an undergrad degree. I did some quick research before hitting the post button to make sure I wouldn't look stupid on this (that would be a first ) and it turns out ND is very highly ranked in terms of undergrad B schools.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

I don't doubt that happens in terms of jobs, but ND is not one of the premier business schools in the U.S., nor are most of the Ivy league schools, although of course a few of them are. In the B10, at a mimimum Northwestern is well out front of ND and so is U of Chicago, which I think, although I could be wrong, is still part of the academic B10. I'd guess half the rest of the B10 schools business programs are on par with ND, while many of their other academic programs are clearly superior.

If ND alum are getting all these plum jobs in Chicago it is for the same reason that some frat guys get plum jobs. ND guys hiring ND guys.

I need to back up and say I'm talking about graduate programs here because that's really what business schools are ranked on. Nobody gets to the top of the food chain with just an undergrad degree. I did some quick research before hitting the post button to make sure I wouldn't look stupid on this (that would be a first ) and it turns out ND is very highly ranked in terms of undergrad B schools.

I believe this is all correct. U of C is indeed the 12th member of the "Academic Big Ten." ND may have a very good undergrad school, but ND's "problem" in terms of meeting the academic standards of the Big Ten is the relatively weak nature of their graduate programs. ND isn't a research institution on par with the other Big Ten members.

It is being reported by one outlet that ND's AD was in Chicago for the Big Ten league meetings today.

[cydave]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Not trying to nitpick here, but Notre Dame joining the Big Ten would enhance it's academic standing (not that it's bad). Notre Dame is superior in that regard to any Big Ten school, at least in business. I base that on knowing a bunch of Notre Dame alums via living in Chicago. They're in demand big time based on their pedigree. More so than some Joe Schmoe who went to Iowa, Michigan State, Ohio State, etc. They also find work with big firms in investment banking. That's the top of the food chain in any business related career, and investment bankers are usually the smartest guys in any room. The guys I know in that field almost always come from two distinct backgrounds. 1. Ivy League degree. 2. Notre Dame. From what I know of that industry, a guy with a biz degree from Iowa, Wisconsin, or any other school wouldn't even be considered - his resume is automatically deleted.

According to US News:
Top MBA programs rankings: (Big 10 et al.)
#4 - Northwestern
#5 - UIC*
#12 - Michigan
#21 - Ohio St.
#23 - Indiana
#24 - Minnesota
#27 - Wisconsin
#31 - Notre Dame*
#36 - Purdue
#42 - Illinois
#42 - Iowa
#46 - Michigan St.
#48 - Penn St.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

The sooner people realize that an MBA is the silliest degree offered in America (and maybe the most worthless) the better off we'll be.

[/hijack]

[jegbomb52]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

The sooner people realize that an MBA is the silliest degree offered in America (and maybe the most worthless) the better off we'll be.

[/hijack]

I don't know, my "Masters in Education" is only worth about $3,000 annually.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

I don't know, my "Masters in Education" is only worth about $3,000 annually.

I stand corrected. The MBA is the silliest, you have the most worthless.

[Trapped in California]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

News - I disagree with the MBA characterization. The Masters in English has to be the most worthless degree available. Ask any waiter in Iowa City...

[Newsbreaker]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

News - I disagree with the MBA characterization. The Masters in English has to be the most worthless degree available. Ask any waiter in Iowa City...

LOL. I'm starting to think that Master's degrees on the whole aren't worth the paper they're printed on!

[jegbomb52]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

I stand corrected. The MBA is the silliest, you have the most worthless.

Now that I think about it, with my district paying for my masters, and me receiving $3,000 annually for it, if I teach another 30 years, my masters will be worth $90K !!!!

Okay, I don't feel so bad anymore.