UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

[96' Alum]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

In the 2010 recruiting class for football, ISU signed 20/28 kids from either Texas, Florida, or California.
For the 2010 recruiting class for UNI football, they signed 1/21 kids from those 3 states.
Now, you can say that they have been going after the same "level" of talent, but it is coming from a different area. IF the Big 12 disappears and ISU is left in a lower level conference, they lose those valuable pipelines from the south. ISU will then, more than likely, have to resort to recruiting harder in the midwest, where UNI gets most of their kids. That will have an impact on UNI.

Thank you for saying this better than I did....As a Panther fan first and foremost, this scares me to no end.

UNI football has made a pretty good go from in-state and Missouri players that are not perceived as BCS worthy...Having Iowa State move down a level puts a lot of the same talent in their sites as well....

It will be a lot tougher beating Iowa State for a kid to go play in whatever D 1conference they are in than it has been beating Missouri State, etc.

[96' Alum]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

News, as cynical as your approach to the world is I am disappointed in the fact that you let your loyalties to your favorite team cloud your judgement on this.

The Network makes money by having cable companies subscribe to the network....You are going to sit there and tell me that market expansion isn't the main way their business grows...They have acheived a level of saturation in the current Big 10/11 areas, new markets are needed.

[CincyPanther88]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Duh, my bad. Maybe I'll start a thread with speculation on the impact of Xavier leaving the Big East, and the MVC losing Appy St.

Cincy, what's the latest on Big Ten expansion via news from Ohio St? I ask because some of the radio stations around here are mentioning recent reporting done by some of the Ohio papers. These papers have been filing open records law requests to obtain emails from Ohio St.'s AD. There was some mention of the Big Ten continuing to pursue Texas a couple of days ago.

From what I've heard there was an e-mail from tOSU that was discovered through the open records law that said they still wanted Texas to join. But from what I've read, it's going to be tough to take just Texas since A&M and Tech and possibly Baylor seemed joined at the hip to them. Someone on another message board I frequent said they could just reform the old Southwest Conference and invite the Oklahoma schools and a couple other schools in.

I still think the kingpin in this is Notre Dame. If they decide to join the Bigger 10 and make it a 12 team conference, I don't see anyone going forth with expansion plans. Notre Dame's a big get but it's not like it's going to leave the SEC or the Pac 10 or the Big 12 in the dust.

[BCPanther]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Personally, I don't see anyway the Big Ten stops at twelve, even if Notre Dame is included. Notre Dame isn't enough to get the Big Ten Network on basic cable in the Northeast and in the Western Plains, and that is the goal.

Rutgers and UConn, IMO, are done deals due to the fact that it can/will put the Big Ten Network in the homes of 20-25 Million more BASIC cable subscribers. Notre Dame doesn't do that as their national appeal is somewhat overstated. Overstated to the fact that NBC is now trying to move some of their games to VERSUS, now that Comcast now owns both entities.

[Trapped in California]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Doesn't ND lose some it its shine if it is no longer playing USC, Washington, TX, etc on a yearly basis. Sure they also play Army & western Michigan, but part of the draw of ND is that they play teams from 4-7 conferences a year.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

News, as cynical as your approach to the world is I am disappointed in the fact that you let your loyalties to your favorite team cloud your judgement on this.

The Network makes money by having cable companies subscribe to the network....You are going to sit there and tell me that market expansion isn't the main way their business grows...They have acheived a level of saturation in the current Big 10/11 areas, new markets are needed.

You're having to invent some imputation on me personally to argue back? Like I said, point to one tangible source which discusses Fox as the - even a - motivating factor behind expansion. Hundreds of articles discussing every possible angle on this story have been published over the past six months. Find just one and I'll agree completely with you. Just one.

Yes, adding more TV households is the entire point. Everyone knows that. We disagree as to whether the Big Ten Presidents or Fox is pushing the buttons here. We agree as to the goal.

[SteinPizza]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Doesn't ND lose some it its shine if it is no longer playing USC, Washington, TX, etc on a yearly basis. Sure they also play Army & western Michigan, but part of the draw of ND is that they play teams from 4-7 conferences a year.

The Notre Dame beat writer from the Tribune was on Comcast last night, and he pointed this out as a reason why Notre Dame won't join a conference. The Chicago media follows Notre Dame as heavily as any other local team (which it arguably is), and I have yet to hear/read one report from a well placed reporter with talk of Notre Dame joining the Big Ten. Frankly, I think the odds of Texas joining the Big Ten are greater than Notre Dame, and both are semi-long shots.

[96' Alum]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

You're having to invent some imputation on me personally to argue back? Like I said, point to one tangible source which discusses Fox as the - even a - motivating factor behind expansion. Hundreds of articles discussing every possible angle on this story have been published over the past six months. Find just one and I'll agree completely with you. Just one.

Yes, adding more TV households is the entire point. Everyone knows that. We disagree as to whether the Big Ten Presidents or Fox is pushing the buttons here. We agree as to the goal.

First of all, I have read many of your past posts, and you have been consistently cynical in what you have written about opinion issues.....Second, why would Fox allow anything to be written that exposes them as the reason for expanding the network??? Especially when part of the expansion waters down the academic excellence of the Big 10/11...

But on one hand, it is about the proper fit academically, and how the Big10/11 has standards that they will maintain.....Yet in the next breath, you acknowledge that it IS all about television sets, and I don't think that university presidents have much time to worry about a cable company in rural Indiana.

Also, why would the Big 10/11 presidents be advocating this move?

In these difficult economic times, think about the additional costs associated with the expansion....
IF they get ONLY Notre Dame, then the costs are minimal....BUT in adding a Nebraska (ranked just barely inside the top 100 of University rankings), and ???, you are adding costs.

A trip from Iowa City to Lincoln isn't a big deal, but a trip from Pennsylvania to Lincoln for a wrestling meet has prohibitive costs for the athletic departments....If they go East, then you are adding huge travel expenses for the schools in the Midwest, especially for non-profit sports...

I understand that this became a non-factor when the network handed out television checks to the schools....But that is completely driven by Fox, not the university presidents.

But back to the original point, I am fascinated that you have allowed your fandom for the Hawks to prevent you from approaching candor on this issue...It's not meant to be a slam, it just doesn't seem like your style...I mean when you act one way about Penrith, and baseball, yet you fall into the standard line here on an issue that affects the Hawks.

[Panther789]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

From a pure scheduling perspective, how are these 16 team football conferences going to work?

I would assume teams would play the other 7 teams in their division, and 1 (2 max) games against the other division in the regular season.

If thats the case, teams like Texas Tech and Oregon State, although in the same conference, might only play each other every 8th year. In a 16 team Big Ten, would that mean Ohio State might only travel to Iowa every 16th year?

[SteinPizza]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

I understand that this became a non-factor when the network handed out television checks to the schools....But that is completely driven by Fox, not the university presidents.

'96, if Fox has a 49% share like you say, then of course they have a voice. However, as I said, I have yet to read or hear anything that says that Fox is driving the bus when it comes to the BTN. If they did, you would assume they'd be cross pollinating on air talent. The BTN hired all of it's own folks. Fox News will occasionally use reporters from the local Fox affiliate here to cover area based national news stories. I have yet to see one person from Channel 12 here do anything for the BTN, and doubt I will. Like I said, the BTN broadcasts from the same facility that Fox Sports Chicago used to work from. That could explain much of their equity stake as much as anything else. So they're partnered with Fox, so what? You seem to insinuate some kind of conspiracy, but I don't see it.

I'm also willing to bet that the added travel costs with sending non-revenue teams long distances will be more than made up for by increased revenue to the BTN as a whole, larger network TV contracts for non BTN games, etc. It's the Big Ten Conference (meaning Jim Dellany) as a business enterprise that's doing all this, not Fox. A good guess says the university presidents have BoD style veto power, but aren't involved in any of the operations of the network or business (and it would be stupid to do so).

[CincyPanther88]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Personally, I don't see anyway the Big Ten stops at twelve, even if Notre Dame is included. Notre Dame isn't enough to get the Big Ten Network on basic cable in the Northeast and in the Western Plains, and that is the goal.

Maybe not. Just speculation on my part. But just adding Notre Dame might be enough to get on those Northeast TVs. You think NBC wanted to carry Notre Dame's games because they were only popular in the Midwest? To a lot of Catholics, Notre Dame is their team even if they never set foot in South Bend. And there are a predominant amount of Catholics in Boston and New York City and Philly not to mention their respective states. If the Big 10 Network is the way they can watch the Irish on Saturdays, they are going to want that channel. And a lot of people who live in the city in apartments won't be able to get the games on a dish.

[BCPanther]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Maybe not. Just speculation on my part. But just adding Notre Dame might be enough to get on those Northeast TVs. You think NBC wanted to carry Notre Dame's games because they were only popular in the Midwest? To a lot of Catholics, Notre Dame is their team even if they never set foot in South Bend. And there are a predominant amount of Catholics in Boston and New York City and Philly not to mention their respective states. If the Big 10 Network is the way they can watch the Irish on Saturdays, they are going to want that channel. And a lot of people who live in the city in apartments won't be able to get the games on a dish.

There is a difference between cable and basic cable. The BTN's goal is to get on basic cable wherever possible, meaning you have to have a regional school. They want everyone to have the network, not just those willing to purchase a separate sports tier.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Second, why would Fox allow anything to be written that exposes them as the reason for expanding the network???

What, Fox now controls what newspapers, bloggers and other media sources with no affiliation with News Corp can write? When the dozens of national commentators and writers who are covering this situation learn that Fox is really the force pushing the Big Ten to expand, they don't write about it because Fox won't let them?

But on one hand, it is about the proper fit academically, and how the Big10/11 has standards that they will maintain.....Yet in the next breath, you acknowledge that it IS all about television sets, and I don't think that university presidents have much time to worry about a cable company in rural Indiana.

Yes, those are entirely consistent statements. It can, and is, both. If a school isn't in the AAU, the likelihood of being granted admission is lower. They may be required to up their facilities and institution in a directed way so as to eventually gain AAU accreditation. (Note that the top non-ND target, Nebraska, is already an AAU member - they would add both TV sets, national clout and satisfy the academic requirements.) I won't be surprised to learn that if a non-ND, non-AAU school joins the Big Ten then their revenue sharing payout is restricted until they reach a level allowing them to join the AAU.

In these difficult economic times, think about the additional costs associated with the expansion....
IF they get ONLY Notre Dame, then the costs are minimal....BUT in adding a Nebraska (ranked just barely inside the top 100 of University rankings), and ???, you are adding costs.

Yes, but they believe you increase revenues at a level that is greater then then new costs. It's a simple cost/benefit analysis.

Let's take Missouri for example (because I happen to remember the numbers off the top of my head). The BTN is available in Missouri on expanded-tier packages. As a 'non-footprint' state, they receive something in the neighborhood of .30 per household per-month, for a total of roughly (at 5 million homes) 1.5 Million dollars per month (18 million per year) from that state. Now, if they add Mizzou to the league, that .30 per month becomes .70 per month as a "footprint" state. Their 1.5 million per month becomes 3.5 million per month, for a total of 42 million dollars per year.

That covers the added expense to travel, and then some, even after you cut Mizzou into the pie.

To address the last comment, my analysis has nothing to do with the Hawkeyes. It's an exercise in media studies for me, and one I'm following with great interest. The situation simply isn't a negative one for Iowa, provided teams are added which increase the total revenue pie for the Big Ten. The math is pretty simple: Each Big Ten school gets 20 million dollars per year from the BTN/ESPN/Etc. Any new school needs to add at least 20 million dollars per year (to cover their portion of the payout), plus whatever added expenses league teams will incur. When you look at the Missouri numbers, you see it really doesn't take a lot. When you think about what adding ND would do just to the ABC contract, look out.

[FOTY]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Cincy, what's the latest on Big Ten expansion via news from Ohio St?

I may not be Cincy... but being in C-bus I might have some insight.

We see essentially the same reports/releases that you see. Reading the DMR and other Iowa papers, the speculation is more rampant - likely due to the questions around ISU and the border states; Neb and Mizz.

The talking heads have offered up some speculation, but are move focused on the daily reports about some basketball player out of Akron. Oddly enough, the future conference allignment isn't the lead story/discussion. It just doesn't have any major impact the the majority of the listeners, other than who tOSU will be running over on their way to their next bowl loss .

[run&blade]

Re: UNI to join a conference with Kansas and ISU?

Big East is going to get destroyed in expansion. Big Ten, ACC, and maybe the SEC will take teams.

The western teams of the A-10, Big East, and the Valley large schools could form a bball only league and look pretty good. CUSA might have a couple willing to jump also to this bball only league.