20 Wins

[Pantherlope2019]

Re: 20 Wins

Seth Tuttle, Marvin Singleton, Nate Buss, Jake Koch, Lucas O'Rear, Jordan Egg, Adam Koch, Eric Colman, and Grant Stout would probably disagree.

All of the above had strengths and weaknesses. I'll single out Tuttle. A great passer and leader. I'm sure he is doing well in Germany. He was not particularly quick and was prone to foul trouble. It took until his Senior season to be considered a good outside shooter for a post player, but overall I would grade his development as very good. I would say that Eldon Miller and Greg McDermott did a better job with developing players in the low post. In your above list I don't consider Buss to be a big even though he played power forward. He could also play the 5 spot in his Senior season. He spent a considerable amount of time taking 3 point shots. He wasn't a very solid rebounder, but made some improvement with more experience.

[Panthers to the Bone]

Re: 20 Wins

FWIW, Jake was the post position coach for Mac.
I've stated before that UNI has recruited inner city and JC kids. Most of the time they haven't worked out. Why continue going after similar recruits when it doesn't seem to work? In fact, I'd love to see stats on where the 1st & 2nd team all conference players are from over the past 15 years. I honestly don't know the outcome but I have a guess.

[BCPanther]

Re: 20 Wins

2015-2016
Ron Baker--Scott County, KS
DJ Balentine--Kokomo, IN
Egidijus Mockevicius--Lithuania
Anthony Beane--Normal, IL
Fred VanVleet--Rockford, IL

2014-2015--
Same Group but replace Beane with Tuttle--Sheffield, IA

2013-2014--
Baker
Balentine
VanVleet
Tuttle
Jake Odom-Terre Haute, IN
Cleanthony Early-MIddletown, NY by way of Sullivan JC, Sullivan, NY

2012-2013--
Doug McDermott--Ames, IA
Cleanthony Early
Jake Odum
Jackie Carmichael--Manhattan, KS
Colt Ryan--Batesville, IN

Yup, lots of inner-city talent there...

[claw]

Re: 20 Wins

2015-2016
Ron Baker--Scott County, KS
DJ Balentine--Kokomo, IN
Egidijus Mockevicius--Lithuania
Anthony Beane--Normal, IL
Fred VanVleet--Rockford, IL

2014-2015--
Same Group but replace Beane with Tuttle--Sheffield, IA

2013-2014--
Baker
Balentine
VanVleet
Tuttle
Jake Odom-Terre Haute, IN
Cleanthony Early-MIddletown, NY by way of Sullivan JC, Sullivan, NY

2012-2013--
Doug McDermott--Ames, IA
Cleanthony Early
Jake Odum
Jackie Carmichael--Manhattan, KS
Colt Ryan--Batesville, IN

Yup, lots of inner-city talent there...

Check the cities out on the interactive map I made for it. Very clearly full of inner city areas.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-DB8A_MN2Qt47oobcknObGE0m0U&usp=sharing

Ignoring that Ames might genuinely be the most inner city type city on the list. I suppose Rockford is probably "rougher"

[orangetennis]

Re: 20 Wins

Seth Tuttle, Marvin Singleton, Nate Buss, Jake Koch, Lucas O'Rear, Jordan Egg, Adam Koch, Eric Colman, and Grant Stout would probably disagree.

It can be argued that everyone on this list had a greater ceiling than they achieved at UNI. I agree with grainer, Jake has, by and large, not done a very good job of bringing in, or developing bigs.
Part of this has to do with the style of offense he runs and his rebounding philosophy, but the point remains, bigs just don't develop well, offensively, under Jakes regime, imo. Outside of making them a more inside/outside threat, the back to the basket style moves just don't seem to improve as much as you'd expect over 4/5 years.

[BCPanther]

Re: 20 Wins

Look at the all-conference lists above. Its not that Jake doesn't develop big guys, its that truly skilled big guys get taken by your top tier leagues and we don't stand a chance in getting them to come here.

In 5 years listed, there are basically 3 big guys: Tuttle, The Lithuanian and Carmichael.

This is just simply a guards league, as most mid-majors are.

Look at this year, Shaq Morris is probably the best big in the league and he is so wildly inconsistent that they can't rely on him from game to game.

[UNIdad]

Re: 20 Wins

Check the cities out on the interactive map I made for it. Very clearly full of inner city areas.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-DB8A_MN2Qt47oobcknObGE0m0U&usp=sharing

Ignoring that Ames might genuinely be the most inner city type city on the list. I suppose Rockford is probably "rougher"

VanVleet was from Rockford Auburn HS which is on the west side, definitely the "rougher" part of Rockford. Rockford east-siders couldn't find Auburn HS with a map!

[hoopfan]

Re: 20 Wins

Look at the all-conference lists above. Its not that Jake doesn't develop big guys, its that truly skilled big guys get taken by your top tier leagues and we don't stand a chance in getting them to come here.

In 5 years listed, there are basically 3 big guys: Tuttle, The Lithuanian and Carmichael.

This is just simply a guards league, as most mid-majors are.

Look at this year, Shaq Morris is probably the best big in the league and he is so wildly inconsistent that they can't rely on him from game to game.

I don't disagree that high ceiling bigs are going to bigger programs/conferences, but I do think there is a lack of development with the big guys that come to UNI. Look at Bennett for example. He's been here 4 years and he still does not have a go to move, doesn't even attempt to finish with his off hand, has no strength/balance and has no idea how to handle a double team. Eric Coleman to this day may not know he has a right hand.

I think Jake is a great coach, but the two biggest weaknesses IMO are post development and play-calling out of a timeout. It is shocking the number of times we call a timeout at the end of a half and then come out and dribble at the top of the key and hoist a contested 3 at the buzzer from the top of the key. Or a timeout will be called at a crucial point in the game and then they struggle to get a shot off at the end of the shot clock. Look at how SIU came out of the half last weekend. I believe they ran a lob play for Fletcher for a dunk that changed momentum for most of the 2nd half. I think Chris Mack came out and said that UNI runs the same plays to start every game and once you know those plays it is easy to jump on them right out of the gate and take control of the game.

This isn't just a Jake issue. It drives me crazy watching coaches at all levels of basketball call TO's at the end of games to draw up a play that often times results in player going 1 vs. 1 to win the game. Do they not practice end of game situations in practice?

Again, I don't want anyone else running the program or for Jake to leave. Those are just my thoughts from watching the last 10 years. There are a lot more positives that outweigh the two items I mentioned and he has more than earned his position and salary during his tenure here and hopefully he is here for the foreseeable future.

[BCPanther]

Re: 20 Wins

I don't disagree that high ceiling bigs are going to bigger programs/conferences, but I do think there is a lack of development with the big guys that come to UNI. Look at Bennett for example. He's been here 4 years and he still does not have a go to move, doesn't even attempt to finish with his off hand, has no strength/balance and has no idea how to handle a double team. Eric Coleman to this day may not know he has a right hand.

I think Jake is a great coach, but the two biggest weaknesses IMO are post development and play-calling out of a timeout. It is shocking the number of times we call a timeout at the end of a half and then come out and dribble at the top of the key and hoist a contested 3 at the buzzer from the top of the key. Or a timeout will be called at a crucial point in the game and then they struggle to get a shot off at the end of the shot clock. Look at how SIU came out of the half last weekend. I believe they ran a lob play for Fletcher for a dunk that changed momentum for most of the 2nd half. I think Chris Mack came out and said that UNI runs the same plays to start every game and once you know those plays it is easy to jump on them right out of the gate and take control of the game.

This isn't just a Jake issue. It drives me crazy watching coaches at all levels of basketball call TO's at the end of games to draw up a play that often times results in player going 1 vs. 1 to win the game. Do they not practice end of game situations in practice?

Again, I don't want anyone else running the program or for Jake to leave. Those are just my thoughts from watching the last 10 years. There are a lot more positives that outweigh the two items I mentioned and he has more than earned his position and salary during his tenure here and hopefully he is here for the foreseeable future.

I don't disagree with this. Well put!

[Born-a-Panther]

Re: 20 Wins

I don't disagree that high ceiling bigs are going to bigger programs/conferences, but I do think there is a lack of development with the big guys that come to UNI. Look at Bennett for example. He's been here 4 years and he still does not have a go to move, doesn't even attempt to finish with his off hand, has no strength/balance and has no idea how to handle a double team. Eric Coleman to this day may not know he has a right hand.

I think Jake is a great coach, but the two biggest weaknesses IMO are post development and play-calling out of a timeout. It is shocking the number of times we call a timeout at the end of a half and then come out and dribble at the top of the key and hoist a contested 3 at the buzzer from the top of the key. Or a timeout will be called at a crucial point in the game and then they struggle to get a shot off at the end of the shot clock. Look at how SIU came out of the half last weekend. I believe they ran a lob play for Fletcher for a dunk that changed momentum for most of the 2nd half. I think Chris Mack came out and said that UNI runs the same plays to start every game and once you know those plays it is easy to jump on them right out of the gate and take control of the game.

This isn't just a Jake issue. It drives me crazy watching coaches at all levels of basketball call TO's at the end of games to draw up a play that often times results in player going 1 vs. 1 to win the game. Do they not practice end of game situations in practice?

Again, I don't want anyone else running the program or for Jake to leave. Those are just my thoughts from watching the last 10 years. There are a lot more positives that outweigh the two items I mentioned and he has more than earned his position and salary during his tenure here and hopefully he is here for the foreseeable future.

This is well stated. I agree with the timeout stuff. I cringe when we call a timeout to draw up a play.

[SteinPizza]

Re: 20 Wins

I don't disagree that high ceiling bigs are going to bigger programs/conferences, but I do think there is a lack of development with the big guys that come to UNI. Look at Bennett for example. He's been here 4 years and he still does not have a go to move, doesn't even attempt to finish with his off hand, has no strength/balance and has no idea how to handle a double team. Eric Coleman to this day may not know he has a right hand.

I think Jake is a great coach, but the two biggest weaknesses IMO are post development and play-calling out of a timeout. It is shocking the number of times we call a timeout at the end of a half and then come out and dribble at the top of the key and hoist a contested 3 at the buzzer from the top of the key. Or a timeout will be called at a crucial point in the game and then they struggle to get a shot off at the end of the shot clock. Look at how SIU came out of the half last weekend. I believe they ran a lob play for Fletcher for a dunk that changed momentum for most of the 2nd half. I think Chris Mack came out and said that UNI runs the same plays to start every game and once you know those plays it is easy to jump on them right out of the gate and take control of the game.

This isn't just a Jake issue. It drives me crazy watching coaches at all levels of basketball call TO's at the end of games to draw up a play that often times results in player going 1 vs. 1 to win the game. Do they not practice end of game situations in practice?

Again, I don't want anyone else running the program or for Jake to leave. Those are just my thoughts from watching the last 10 years. There are a lot more positives that outweigh the two items I mentioned and he has more than earned his position and salary during his tenure here and hopefully he is here for the foreseeable future.

I also agree with this. The lack of Bigs developing is probably a bigger issue for me than the timeout plays. One of the reasons plays don't work is that they can be easy to defend. Playmakers are what is needed, especially when your top play option gets shut down by the D. That's what's sets guys like Wes and Kwazdo apart from other guards here - their ability to bail us out of tight situations.

[Bookin' Panther]

Re: 20 Wins

I have often wondered about another "strategy" used in connection with timeouts. After a timeout, it seems like the very next move is to put in a sub. Why not have that player in the huddle at the timeout? It's not just UNI doing it; I've noticed other teams do, too. Why?

[Pantherlope2019]

Re: 20 Wins

2015-2016
Ron Baker--Scott County, KS
DJ Balentine--Kokomo, IN
Egidijus Mockevicius--Lithuania
Anthony Beane--Normal, IL
Fred VanVleet--Rockford, IL

2014-2015--
Same Group but replace Beane with Tuttle--Sheffield, IA

2013-2014--
Baker
Balentine
VanVleet
Tuttle
Jake Odom-Terre Haute, IN
Cleanthony Early-MIddletown, NY by way of Sullivan JC, Sullivan, NY

2012-2013--
Doug McDermott--Ames, IA
Cleanthony Early
Jake Odum
Jackie Carmichael--Manhattan, KS
Colt Ryan--Batesville, IN

Yup, lots of inner-city talent there...

Instead of our rag tag league, why don't you look at power 5 schools? Better yet, look at Final 4 appearances of power 5 schools versus the MVC? Of course Oklahoma State 1945 and 1946. Cincinnati in 1961 and 1962. Drake in 1969. Indiana State 1979. Wichita State in 2014. What do you think the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 12, and the SEC look like with inner city, JC, and Prep School kids? Oh, quite a few Final Fours out them there power 5 schools...

[PantherFan]

Re: 20 Wins

The next time we run an out of bounds play from the baseline to score a basket instead of lobbing it to somebody out on top will be the first time in a while.

[claw]

Re: 20 Wins

Instead of our rag tag league, why don't you look at power 5 schools? Better yet, look at Final 4 appearances of power 5 schools versus the MVC? Of course Oklahoma State 1945 and 1946. Cincinnati in 1961 and 1962. Drake in 1969. Wichita State in 2013. What do you think the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 12, and the SEC look like with inner city, JC, and Prep School kids? Oh, quite a few Final Fours out them there power 5 schools...

You do realize that those schools you're talking about grab 99% of the kids that can actually play ball and not just "look good" on the court, right?