Doug to Creighton

[PantherInsider]

Re: Doug to Creighton

Who are involved in multi-million dollar athletic programs that are very much "big business."

So you consider a high school basketball player akin to an executive. Further evidence that your perspective is entirely out of whack.

[PantherInsider]

Re: Doug to Creighton

I'm thinking GMac isn't going to be a member of the Panther Scholarshp Club anymore. Though I would guess he might make a donation in someone else's name--don't be surprised if someone with the last name of Adams suddenly makes it on the PSC giving docket.

All that said, I don't think his donation should even be a consideration in this instance. It shouldn't matter.

[achrist70]

Re: Doug to Creighton

I am almost certain that he is still a member of the PSC (as is Terry Allen at MSU). That said, they don't give at levels that would cripple the athletic department if they suddenly stopped giving.

Doug is gone. I understand (kind of) the desire by Doug to play for his old man (though personally I would have thought it would be easier to play for a close family friend than my father). I thought that we should make him sit but it would be fun to watch him get pounded by Luke and schooled by Jake Koch who would be able to match up with him for the next three years.

I feel the same way this could go either way on how it will effect their relationship. The McDermott's assume that this is best for everyone. There are many cases where this works out great for parent and child but at the same time there are many cases where it is detrimental for their relationship. I am not hoping for there to breakup of the McD family. It has happened in situations like this before.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Doug to Creighton

The hypocricy of the guy claiming tampering on one breath then saying such a thing in another overpowers me.

Maybe when you see this situation as less about rules and being tough and teaching lessons and more about people, relationships, fathers and sons and doing what is right for the PEOPLE involved, it will be easier to discuss this issue with you. It will also unbunch those panties of yours.

From UNI's perspective this isn't about "people" and "relationships" and "fathers and sons" and "hey dad, wanna have a catch!?!". It's about a basketball program that has to succeed for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is that success means money, and money is something we don't have nearly enough of right now.

Beyond that, you don't understand what the word "hypocrisy" means, so I will ignore that portion of your post. While I am able to do many things in this world, teaching you is likely far beyond my capabilities.

Centering on the "tampering portion", it appears that CU was involved in the Doug discussion. Early reports seem to indicate that a condition of Greg taking the job was his ability to take Doug with him. That raises at least an inference that CU was involved in those discussions, understood that condition, and was working with Greg to find a way to make that happen. If that is true, then a league institution was taking steps to take a recruit away from another member institution...ie, "tampering."

Let's play the happy hypothetical game. This means I'm going to present a situation which is entirely imaginary to illustrate a point. Words is hard, aren't they?

Let's pretend that UNI, with two open scholarships right now, were to identify the top 2 incoming recruits to the MVC for next year. Then, without contacting the kids, we contacted their closest relative and offered them a job on Jake's bench next year and a hefty salary. Of course they are going to want to be associated with their own kid, who will de-commit from his original school and come to UNI.

See how that is tampering?

Sometimes people have to be adults, and that means understanding that there is a time and place for "daddies and sons" and a time and place for men to understand obligations.

So you consider a high school basketball player akin to an executive. Further evidence that your perspective is entirely out of whack.

I said nothing of the sort. If you have to mischaracterize arguments to try and make a point then that says a great deal about the strength of your own argument.

Ben Jacobson makes almost a half-million dollars a year. He's likely one of the highest-paid people in the entire Cedar Valley. Mac is going to make ~1M a year in Omaha. The NCAA tournament, of which we were a large part this year, just signed a 14 year, 10 BILLION dollar contract. This is big business, and while we all have this warm and fuzzy "panther family" vision in our head, we'd do well to remember that there is no panther family unless we treat this like a business when necessary.

[run&blade]

Re: Doug to Creighton

The end is still the same, he is gone. All that is left is how many people you tick-off and who you get to replace him.

While the ticking-off part might give you a warm fuzzy, it does nothing for the program.

[07PantherAlum]

Re: Doug to Creighton

Ben Jacobson makes almost a half-million dollars a year. He's likely one of the highest-paid people in the entire Cedar Valley. Mac is going to make ~1M a year in Omaha. The NCAA tournament, of which we were a large part this year, just signed a 14 year, 10 BILLION dollar contract. This is big business, and while we all have this warm and fuzzy "panther family" vision in our head, we'd do well to remember that there is no panther family unless we treat this like a business when necessary.

Bravo. I certainly agree.

[run&blade]

Re: Doug to Creighton

What happens if we do play hardball in your world Newsbreaker? You think Doug is coming back to UNI? If you do I would like to sell you a bridge.

There is nothing to be gained by playing hardball on this, nothing. No money, no players, nothing.

This situation is so off the wall and odd. Playing hardball here does nothing because another situation like this will never happen to UNI.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Doug to Creighton

The end is still the same, he is gone. All that is left is how many people you tick-off and who you get to replace him.

While the ticking-off part might give you a warm fuzzy, it does nothing for the program.

Are you refusing to read the thread, or simply unable?

The power UNI has in this situation does a number of things "for the program." You may disagree with the benefits described, but if that is the case then you should refute them individually.

[PantherInsider]

Re: Doug to Creighton

Sorry to break this to you, Newsy, but whatever we chose to do with Doug McDermott has zero impact on our bottom line. We see no financial effects of a decision either way. He's not going to play here and we can't make him play here. Period. End of story. That ship sailed starting yesterday. There is no gain on our end from making a kid who has never attended school here from sitting out one season--because if we do, he will just redshirt for the first year--when he really doesn't have to.

No matter how you want to slice this, at the end of the day this IS about people. You like to pretend it's not, but it is. You can make as many long winded, convoluted and hypothetical-filled posts as you want in an attempt to de-humanize the situation but you're not going to change it.

[panthertrack]

Re: Doug to Creighton

So you consider a high school basketball player akin to an executive. Further evidence that your perspective is entirely out of whack.

You can turn a blind eye all you want, but college basketball at this level is a business.

If Doug wanted to play for his dad so badly, he should have signed with ISU.

Actions. Have. Conequences.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Doug to Creighton

Sorry to break this to you, Newsy, but whatever we chose to do with Doug McDermott has zero impact on our bottom line

It is clear you haven't bothered to read the thread.

First, I have never said we should (or even could) prevent him from transferring. Arguing that point is arguing against thin air.

Second, under the rules clearly posted and discussed, at length, in this thread, the period he would have to sit is two years, not one. You should go back and read that discussion. It includes a nice explanation as to how this benefits UNI and achieves the maximum fairness in this situation.

Third, how good (or bad) Creighton is next year absolutely affects our bottom line. It affects where we finish in the conference. It affects no fewer than two games. It effects the entirety of the league standings. It effects our ability to get into the post-season. All of those things effect dollars-and-cents in a multitude of ways. In short, the claim that what UNI does here does not effect the bottom line is short-sighted at best and certainly completely false.

No matter how you want to slice this, at the end of the day this IS about people. You like to pretend it's not, but it is. You can make as many long winded, convoluted and hypothetical-filled posts as you want in an attempt to de-humanize the situation but you're not going to change it.

Of course it is about individuals, but that doesn't mean that UNI's decisions should be governed by people who are not part of the UNI community, who are never going to be a part of the UNI community in the future, and how are going to spend the foreseeable future trying to achieve one result: Their success at UNI's expense.

You can ignore that reality by casting it as "long-winded" (which only proves that you aren't even bothering to read what is posted because you aren't interested in a discussion - I have read every word you have written and I am trying to actually engage here. If you don't share that goal you shouldn't even be posting in this thread and should show the rest of us some respect by allowing us to continue discussing this subject honestly) but your failure to attempt to rebut even a single substantive point does nothing for your credibility nor for your position.

[PantherInsider]

Re: Doug to Creighton

You can turn a blind eye all you want, but college basketball at this level is a business.

If Doug wanted to play for his dad so badly, he should have signed with ISU.

Actions. Have. Conequences.

Please. Enough with the edukasion for us unsmart peoples about how college sports is a business. Golly gee, really? I had no idea. No friggin' crap.

Doug chose not to play in the Big 12. Or, should I say, the Big 12 didn't chose him. Now, things have changed.

[run&blade]

Re: Doug to Creighton

UNI has to replace him, and he will play for Creighton. IMO these two things are given.

bla bla bla Money bla bla bla Wins bla bla bla.

Get a JUCO and lets move forward. It stinks but playing hardball and having him sit two years IMO doesn't help UNI at all going forward.

[Newsbreaker]

Re: Doug to Creighton

UNI has to replace him, and he will play for Creighton. IMO these two things are given.

bla bla bla Money bla bla bla Wins bla bla bla.

Get a JUCO and lets move forward. It stinks but playing hardball and having him sit two years IMO doesn't help UNI at all going forward.

I'm now going to apologize to everyone else reading this thread. I made the mistake of responding to Run on the belief he was interested in having an intelligent discussion on the subject. He is not. I hope these posts were interesting nonetheless.

People accuse me of arguing for argument's sake on here all the time - and I do - but at minimum I at least pay each of you the respect (like the adults you are) of reading what you have written, considering it, and then responding honestly. Whatever I do, at least I don't act like what we see above.

[PantherInsider]

Re: Doug to Creighton

Sorry to break this to you, Newsy, but whatever we chose to do with Doug McDermott has zero impact on our bottom line

It is clear you haven't bothered to read the thread.

First, I have never said we should (or even could) prevent him from transferring. Arguing that point is arguing against thin air.

Second, under the rules clearly posted and discussed, at length, in this thread, the period he would have to sit is two years, not one. You should go back and read that discussion. It includes a nice explanation as to how this benefits UNI and achieves the maximum fairness in this situation.

Third, how good (or bad) Creighton is next year absolutely affects our bottom line. It affects where we finish in the conference. It affects no fewer than two games. It effects the entirety of the league standings. It effects our ability to get into the post-season. All of those things effect dollars-and-cents in a multitude of ways. In short, the claim that what UNI does here does not effect the bottom line is short-sighted at best and certainly completely false.



Of course it is about individuals, but that doesn't mean that UNI's decisions should be governed by people who are not part of the UNI community, who are never going to be a part of the UNI community in the future, and how are going to spend the foreseeable future trying to achieve one result: Their success at UNI's expense.

You can ignore that reality by casting it as "long-winded" (which only proves that you aren't even bothering to read what is posted because you aren't interested in a discussion - I have read every word you have written and I am trying to actually engage here. If you don't share that goal you shouldn't even be posting in this thread and should show the rest of us some respect by allowing us to continue discussing this subject honestly) but your failure to attempt to rebut even a single substantive point does nothing for your credibility nor for your position.

LOLz. Just because I don't feel the overwhelming desire to debate every single little point into the ground, to the point where the horse isn't just dead it's carcass has also been skinned and each bone broken into 100 pieces doesn't mean I didn't read the thread.

BTW:
If Doug isn't released/waivered: He redshirts, he sits out, and he plays 3 seasons.
If Doug IS released/waivered: He plays 4 years.

Ergo, we are talking about one year of participation.